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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

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unmerged(25591)

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Actually, tech is not that hard. Just have a set level (maybe 50ish) in EU2 at which a nation would be able to get the basic civilized techs, then more for the higher levels. And for other, non-military techs, convert them from the manufactories.
 

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Guys, I'm still interested to help in any way, but I'm getting married next week so I won't be around until March 20th or so, ok? Then I could do something that doesn't is involved with programming (I know nothing of it).
 

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Put the level for basic tech at 57. Then add three random techs if they've gotten to 59.
 

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Hey, sorry about being away guys.

I've had to relocate for ashort period and I am without my computer. I should be back online and everything sometime later this week.

Sounds good.

Again, anyone who is interested in helping out, please PM me. It's hard to differentiate between people just dropping advice and people who would be willing to help out.

- MVSN
 

unmerged(15764)

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Great some people are working on this again, maybe i could help in some way? i know some visual basic and very little c++ but not much eu2 scripting. i think this is a great idea tell me if you need help!
 

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I'm still here, I've just been away for most of this week. Probably I'll sit down next or next next week (I have a few important tests coming up), and write an overview about all suggestions made in this thread.
 

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Chaingun said:
I'm still here, I've just been away for most of this week. Probably I'll sit down next or next next week (I have a few important tests coming up), and write an overview about all suggestions made in this thread.

Good idea. Yes, I think most of the people have been away this week.

- MVSN
 

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Yepp :D. Well, sometimes one might just have to study a little bit less in order to do all "important stuff" ;).
 

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Chaingun said:
Yepp :D. Well, sometimes one might just have to study a little bit less in order to do all "important stuff" ;).

I should be up and ready to go as of tomorrow afternoon.

- MVSN

P.S. Can anyone think up a better name for the project than Eu2 to Vic Save Game Utility? Something short and catchy? Like EVIC I was thinking.
 

unmerged(17772)

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how about "Victoria Universalis"?

or "Eu2VIC"

or "thingymabob that will change your eu2 save game into a victoria game majiggy".

Im bad with naming things, i named my cat "Cat". pretty creative huh?
 

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FooFight2000 said:
how about "Victoria Universalis"?

or "Eu2VIC"

or "thingymabob that will change your eu2 save game into a victoria game majiggy".

Im bad with naming things, i named my cat "Cat". pretty creative huh?

Eu2Vic, E2Vic...somethine like that.

"Cat", I named my cat but it only responds to 'kitty'.

- MVSN
 

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EU2Vic sounds just fine I think (with a special stress put on the '2').

I'd like to add we really need to have some kind of public workspace where the current progress is listed. Either this could be a special thread in this forum, maintained only for this purpose, or some special feature of some other web site that allows people to communicate and exchange work.
 

unmerged(9404)

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Nice project and I'd be very interested in the result. I cannot help in the coding in Java, C++ or whatever, but I can give help and advice on other stuff:)



One of the major problems that will probably be encountered is the conversion of EU provinces to Vic provinces. I tried to tackle this problem for the relative simple example of the British Isles. In EU2 it consists of 20 provinces (15 in Britain, 5 in Ireland), in Victoria it consists of 47 provinces (37 in Britain and 15 in Ireland). See EU2 map and Victoria map for reference.

I divided it up so that the maps look the most the same.
Code:
EU2						Victoria	
ID	Prov. name		City name	id	Prov. name	State name
231	Connaught		Galway		245	Sligo		Connaught	
						246	Galway		Connaught
232	Ulster			Belfast		240	Belfast		Ulster
						241	Londonderry	Ulster
						242	Armagh		Ulster
233	Meath			Dublin		243	Dublin		Leinster
234	Leinster		Wexford		244	Kildare		Leinster	
						250	Wexford		Leinster
235	Munster			Cork		247	Limerick	Munster
						248	Waterford	Munster
						249	Cork		Munster
236	The Highlands		Inverness	210	Inverness	North Scotland	
237	The Grampians		Aberdeen	211	Aberdeen	North Scotland	
						212	Dundee		South Scotland
						213	Perth		South Scotland
238	Lothian			Edinburgh	215	Edinburgh	South Scotland
239	Stratchhylde		Glasgow		214	Glasgow		South Scotland	
240	Northumberland		Newcastle	216	Newcastle	North England	
						217	Carlisle	North England
241	Yorkshire		York		220	Leeds		North England	
						221	Hull		North England
242	Lancashire		Lancaster	218	Liverpool	North England	
						219	Manchester	North England
						224	Chester		West England
243	Wales			Cardiff		225	Bangor		Wales
						226	Montgomery	Wales
						227	Cardigan	Wales
						228	Cardiff		Wales
244	Midlands		Coventry	223	Nottingham	Midlands	
						229	Shrewsbury	West England
						230	Birmingham	Midlands
245	Lincoln			Lincoln		222	Lincoln		Eastern Counties
						231	Leicester	Midlands
246	Bristol			Bristol		236	Oxford		Midlands
						237	Bristol		West England
						251	Taunton		South West England
247	Anglia			London		232	Cambridge	Eastern Counties
						233	Norwich		Eastern Counties
						234	Ipswich		Eastern Counties
						235	Bedford		Greater London
248	Kent			Canterbury	255	London		Greater London
						256	Canterbury	South East England
						257	Brighton	South East England
249	Wessex			Portsmouth	252	Salisbury	South West England
						253	Southhampton	South East England
						254	Reading	Greater London
250	Cornwall		Plymouth	238	Plymouth	South West England

From this province conversion there are some problems.

  • Some EU provinces are divided up into four Vic provinces, while others in only one.
  • There are less states in Victoria than there are provinces in EU, and new states cannot be created (right??) making it difficult what to do with province specific buildings like tax collectors, manufacories, conscript centre etc.
  • How to divide the population of a EU province into the population of multiple Vic province? A simple equal distribution or assign a major city which gets a higher pop? How to assign culture, religion, distribution over the different classes



This however might be running a bit to far ahead, as I don't know what people can do with the save games.
 

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Thank you Ironfoundersson for trying some basic conversion out. I have some answers to your questions about issues that arise:

Populations:
I don't think we will need to convert the populations from EU2. Think about it, the population of a province in EU2 is really only the population in its biggest capital. I don't see any reason to why we couldn't instead import population data from the Victoria Grand Campaign and use with slight modifications. These modifications would include religion and culture perhaps (for those colonies).

Province sizes and locations:
I don't see much of a problem if whether an EU2 province represents 1 or 10 Victoria provinces (that might very well be the case in Germany for example). It is not that hard to program for as well. The only issue I can see with multiple Victoria provinces corresponding to one EU2 province is army placement and state belonging. In this case I think one "main province" in Victoria should be chosen for each EU2 province, where armies are placed and which's state is the one that receive any factories from manufactories etc.

States:
Sure, it will be hard to decide who owns a state. However, if you look into the structure of a save file you see a state can be divided up by each country that owns province(s) in it. I think that each EU2 province that needs have to its manufactory converted to a factory for example, should add a corresponding factory to the state of the country it belongs to. I'll make an example below:

EU2 provinces A, B, C and D lie in the same Victoria state.
A and B are owned by country X, C by country Y, and D by country Z.
A contains manufactory K, and adds a corresponding factory to the part of the state that belongs to country X. B also contains a manufactory, and it adds another factory to the state of country X.
C does not contain a manufacotry, and nothing is added.
D contains a Center of Trade, and it should represent some kind of factory which is added to the state of country Z.

I would like to remind people about that everything does not have to be converted. The decreasing effect of religion could for example mean we decide to ignore religion at all if we want to, even though it'd be nice to see the conversions you've made in EU2 to appear in Victoria. DP sliders we can drop as well, unless we somehow want them to have some kind of far-fletched effect on the policies of the country converted. Some things are just stupid to convert, like the goods produced in the provinces (I don't even know if they can be edited in Victoria). And yet again we can convert some countries non existant in Victoria to some that did exist (and a lot of countries did change names during that time).

Remember, no need for this to be overdone or overcomplicated.
 
Last edited:

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For starting factories, here's what I think should be done. The nations from the EU2 save-game should be given a ranking based off their industrial strength (some combination of manufactories and trade centers). You then design a decent, working economy to start Victoria with as a list of `needed' interrelated factories. The first ranked nation from the EU2 list gets a certain number of those, the second get a smaller number, and so on down the list. (Probably throw in some random ones too.) This would help keep the economy from starting off broken.

Something else to keep in mind is the fact that people will be converting from Crusader Kings as well, so you'll probably want to leave things open enough tag-wise that it can handle CK nations that made it through EU2.
 

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Chaingun said:
EU2Vic sounds just fine I think (with a special stress put on the '2').

I'd like to add we really need to have some kind of public workspace where the current progress is listed. Either this could be a special thread in this forum, maintained only for this purpose, or some special feature of some other web site that allows people to communicate and exchange work.

Yes. We should start up another official Thread. Before we do that, the project leaders should have a talk though. Do you guys have MSN or something we could have a talk? Or just through private messages?

- MVSN
 

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I have ICQ: 150858672, MSN I got tired of two years ago when they started it and said my own email address was not good enough, and wanted me to get a hotmail address. Never!

mIRC is an option as well, we could create a temporary chat room (or join an exsisting one), and decide upon a time to meet there.

To assign industrial rankings: It is quite a good idea, but the downside of it is of course the user won't recognize his former industrialized manufactory provinces. I now envision the a mix of your idea and the localized province based manufactory idea; sites with manufactories would have a higher chance of receiving a factory (with the total number placed still based on the industrial ranking). It might be used to determine positions of starting railroads as well (if we need any).
 

unmerged(17772)

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I have AIM but i think mIRC may be the best choice since we all wont agree on a certain instant messaging software. The problem is chatting, i think us project leaders span across serveral times zones, picking a good time to meet up would be hard.

I should almost put up a message board on my webserver that would just have a dedicated forum for us and maybe a general forum that everyone could post in (they woudlnt need to register). What do you guys think?
 

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FooFight2000 said:
I have AIM but i think mIRC may be the best choice since we all wont agree on a certain instant messaging software. The problem is chatting, i think us project leaders span across serveral times zones, picking a good time to meet up would be hard.

I should almost put up a message board on my webserver that would just have a dedicated forum for us and maybe a general forum that everyone could post in (they woudlnt need to register). What do you guys think?

Well, I shall be up all night. mIRC is acceptable :).

Ummm, where are you guys located? I'm in Toronto, and it's 7:40 right now. We don't really need to meet. Just who is responsible for what, etc. etc. I'll put a list together of everyone who has emailed or pm'd me together.

- MVSN