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Chaingun said:
Would anyone even consider to continue playing under these conditions?
I WOULD!

At least for me, the most important thing would be to:



  • Have more or less the same geographical boundaries (that means that if I am playing as France in EU2 I do not end up playing France in Vicky but with the territory of Mexico for instance)
  • Have more or less the same amount of armies (infantry goes to plain infantry w/o any attachment at all, artillery to infantry with artillery attachment, cavalry to cavalry) and navies
  • Diplomacy would remain at its actual status (Peace treaties, alliances or war)

I would not worry very much about the economic model to be honest, since in Vicky you would need to indutrialize from zero.

Terra incognita would translate into colonizable land...

I wish I could program anything, but I ain't that good... :(

But guys, converting EU2 save games to Vicky's would be AWESOME!
 

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First I'd like to respond to the previous poster:

While it is possible to industrilize with very few factories around, I believe it is necessary for a few basic goods created by factories to be avabilable for education of POPs. This belief is based on however that the WM does not create goods out of nothing, which is something I can't confirm. Anyway, there are few of countries in the GC that start out with factories (such as England). It therefore leads me to think that one should convert EU2 manufactories and/or center of trades into Victoria factories. I'd rather not have the really broken economy in the out-of-the-box GC where some goods are chronically short of supply.

As a side note and idea; perhaps it is possible to convert EU2 victory points to Victoria prestige? At least the user could be given the option, and that a certain ratio would be applied (like 1 Victoria prestige = 10 EU2 VP). That should make the relative start between countries a bit more differentiated.

Now I'll get back to the things we need to do as soon as possible:

We need to decide on what language and compiler/tools to use. While I'd prefer to use C++, the best compiler and development environment is MSVC. However, it is way to expensive and has it tendencies to strongly reduce portability. (I just stopped using version 5 and tried to convert a few old projects to DevCPP - what a pain...). Of course there a loads of freeware compilers too, but those usually have their issues and lacking documentation. Like you stated earlier Java could be used as well, but I'm not too familiar with it so I'll need to practice a bit if we decide to go that route. To round it off the most important thing is that the language we choose need to have good facilities for clear IO, UI and data structure handling.

Now to the conceptual part. I haven't read much (not even in the forums), but is there any known documentation of all the specific Vic-related scripting statements for the .EUG files? Else we would have to research these in order to accomplish anything meaningful.

I've said earlier that we need someone to do the boring task of organizing EU2 province IDs into Victoria IDs, and EU2 tags into Victoria tags. Preferably this should be done in a format that we could use to load into the converter (if we don't need to modify it further). That is in a text format, but note that it means plain ASCII text and not Word! (For any non programmer who'd like to do that.) Below I'll make examples of tag definitions.

First country tag mappings file, with EU2 country to the left and corresponding Victoria to the right, separated by white space (note that many of the tags would be the same as seen below):
FRA FRA
ENG ENG
XXX YYY

Then the province mapping file. It is worse because each EU2 province would probably need to map into several Victoria province IDs (to the left the EU2 ID, to the right a list of Victoria IDs separated by whitespaces):
214 184 637 223
142 384 73 273
112 64
198 632 612 600 273

Tip: To view the IDs in the game, type "showid" when pressing F12. This should help you immensely since there are very few ID maps as of yet for Victoria.

Note that I made all those provinces above up, and that they probably should probably be sorted in EU2 numerical order for convience. In the same way the country list should be sorted in EU2 alphabetical order.

My last qustion is, how are states represented in the Victoria save game file? Are they at all, or are they simply initialized during loading time? If they aren't that is certainly more convient than if we have to care about them. Factories and colonial buildings might be organized into states though, and then Victoria province IDs need to be mapped into state IDs as well.
 
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Chaingun said:
While it is possible to industrilize with very few factories around, I believe it is necessary for a few basic goods created by factories to be avabilable for education of POPs. This belief is based on however that the WM does not create goods out of nothing, which is something I can't confirm. Anyway, there are few of countries in the GC that start out with factories (such as England). It therefore leads me to think that one should convert EU2 manufactories and/or center of trades into Victoria factories. I'd rather not have the really broken economy in the out-of-the-box GC where some goods are chronically short of supply.

As a side note and idea; perhaps it is possible to convert EU2 victory points to Victoria prestige? At least the user could be given the option, and that a certain ratio would be applied (like 1 Victoria prestige = 10 EU2 VP). That should make the relative start between countries a bit more differentiated.
Yes, it will be quite difficult. However, we have a ten year difference in times to work with. Someone mentioned earlier that as soon as you start the game, a number of events should trigger to make up the insurmountable differences. Or perhaps in the utility itself. I'm picturing this beautiful windows popup :).

- MVSN
 

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Hehe I just edited my post above very much in length. You should check the added latter parts.
 

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Im the Grey Ghost guy, this is my Paradox forum screen name.

My vote is to program the utility in Java. I am fluent in Java. I know C++ but not near the extent that i know java. The mapping of the provences is going to be the hard part. (getting started is always the hard part :wacko: ) What we should do is break it down into continents. That way it is not such a load for one person. One person do Europe (that one is the hardest) Another do North & South America, another do Asia, and another do africa.

How many people do we have?
 

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A quick note...

Our first MAIN goal should be to convert the EUII save game to a Vicky Save Game with Provences and poplations correctly translating. If we can get that done THAT is THE major hurdle. Correctly converting units, prestige, diplomacy stats, goods and what not can all come later on.
 

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FooFight2000 said:
A quick note...

Our first MAIN goal should be to convert the EUII save game to a Vicky Save Game with Provences and poplations correctly translating. If we can get that done THAT is THE major hurdle. Correctly converting units, prestige, diplomacy stats, goods and what not can all come later on.
Agreed. On both accounts. Java is my vote, it's really not that difficult to learn. Yeah, we can start with that...then fill in the blanks later (politics, etc). So I'm thinking we should do everything together...there isn't enough people to divy up everything. Probably good too, cause we'll all get a say on every aspect of the conversion.

- MVSN
 

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mvsnconsolegene said:
Agreed. On both accounts. Java is my vote, it's really not that difficult to learn. Yeah, we can start with that...then fill in the blanks later (politics, etc). So I'm thinking we should do everything together...there isn't enough people to divy up everything. Probably good too, cause we'll all get a say on every aspect of the conversion.

- MVSN
Oh, P.S. Althought the title of this thread is a EU2 -> VIC -> HoI Utility, I say we focus on the former. Maybe down the line with a successful conversion working we can start the second part of the project :).
 

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I don't have HOI and I'm not planning to buy it very soon, so I couldn't help with that. Therefore I do agree upon that we stick to a EU2->Vic utility for the time being.

OK so we've chosen Java. What compiler should we use? Tell me where to download it and I'll relearn Java myself in a short time (I did try it three years ago).

There is an additional task we should begin coding a soon as possible, when other things have to wait. There must be some kind of base class for the .EUG file format, that should be able to load such a file and split it into its logical components (that is keywords, numbers and strings). All relationships should also be tracked. Perhaps one then could derive another class for EU2 from this base class, and one class for Victoria. The task of these classes would be to check if the contents in the .EUG file loaded were appropiate for each game.

I believe the creation of this IO system for .EUG files is very important if we want to get started anywhere soon. When we got a stable loader everything else gets to be less of a pain.
 

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Well guys, I know nothing of programming myself but just to encourage you all and wish good luck in your task!

Eagerly waiting for results!

ps: BTW, I do have HOI too, but I am more interested in the EU -> Vic tool rather than the Vic -> HOI one....
 

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Chaingun said:
As a side note and idea; perhaps it is possible to convert EU2 victory points to Victoria prestige? At least the user could be given the option, and that a certain ratio would be applied (like 1 Victoria prestige = 10 EU2 VP). That should make the relative start between countries a bit more differentiated.

I think that would be a great idea!
 

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kokomo said:
I think that would be a great idea!
I had the same idea.

- MVSN

P.S. Just because you can't program doesn't mean we won't need you :).
P.S.S. Okay guys, I'm going to be fairly busy the next two days, although I can drop a line in here everynow and them. After that, let's get started! I have had experience with a mod, and we won't be able to get our own sub-category unless we get a lot of people involved and/or are near completion. It is also important that we set some responsiblities and deadlines or nothing will get done, however it is too soon for that. Hopefully, you'll all be like me and not pay attention to the deadlines and get everything done early :).
 
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Yepp this is not only programmers' business you know. We still need suggestions on how to convert EU2 elements into Victoria elements, and it would be great if someone would like to convert those province IDs for us (since it will probably take a long time and that we can't really test the conversion tool for real until it is ready).
 

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Chaingun said:
Yepp this is not only programmers' business you know. We still need suggestions on how to convert EU2 elements into Victoria elements, and it would be great if someone would like to convert those province IDs for us (since it will probably take a long time and that we can't really test the conversion tool for real until it is ready).
I would be happy to help on the province ID's. Is there anywhere that has a map of EU 2 and Vic. I know I've seen Eu2 maps floating around but I haven't seen a world map in Vic.

BTW it would probably be a good idea to break up the workload by regions if there is enough people.
 

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Chaingun said:
My proposal is that I could write a converter for 1819 EU2 save games to Victoria 1836 save games.
Why not a converter for 1819 EU2 save game to a no time limit mod Victoria 1820 save game ?

Do you think you can make version for EU2 mods like the AGCEEP (they change some country tag) ?
 

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JRod: I'm glad you want to help! Sadly, the only Victoria ID map I've seen in one of Europe. But you can start up Victoria and then open the console by pressing F12, and then you write "showid" and press Enter. This will show the province number of the province where the mouse cursor is.

Remember, we will have to convert water provinces as well if we want to place navies correctly later. This might not or might be an issue.

Cpt. Frakas: I'm sure that is a possibility, but those 16 extra years in between may actually give us an excuse to change certain things pretty much. That is something which is needed since a lot of things in EU2 can only be poorly translated into Victoria.
 

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Chaingun said:
Remember, we will have to convert water provinces as well if we want to place navies correctly later. This might not or might be an issue.
Yes, indeed. Seas are like provinces....

That is something which is needed since a lot of things in EU2 can only be poorly translated into Victoria.
Agreed. We should focus, primarily, on vanilla versions, that all of us have; and leave apart (at least on stage 1) mod versions.
 

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Chaingun said:
Yepp this is not only programmers' business you know. We still need suggestions on how to convert EU2 elements into Victoria elements
OK fellas, I'll give you support in any aspect that I can help, especially brain storming.... ;)
 

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Captain Frakas said:
Why not a converter for 1819 EU2 save game to a no time limit mod Victoria 1820 save game ?

Do you think you can make version for EU2 mods like the AGCEEP (they change some country tag) ?
a Victoria type EU2 mod was Age of Nationalism.

However a converter is a stupid idea, HOI is a World War II game except after a EU2, Victoria game, most players wouldnt have the requirements for world war 2 to break out. Also Victoria would be boring once you conqured the world in EU2..

CK to EU2 converter would work because you dont play as countries, you play as dynesties, which is more fun.