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unmerged(25177)

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I'm interested and while I think it might be laborious to do something like this it would worthwhile.

About that maps. I don't really think it would be that hard. It's a matter of first matching the maps. If there was a world map of Vic it would be easier. Then it's a matter of matching populations and the rest of the characteristics.

Not impossible for someone with a little help. I have no programming experience so it's impossible for me.
 

mvsnconsolegene

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JRod said:
I'm interested and while I think it might be laborious to do something like this it would worthwhile.

About that maps. I don't really think it would be that hard. It's a matter of first matching the maps. If there was a world map of Vic it would be easier. Then it's a matter of matching populations and the rest of the characteristics.

Not impossible for someone with a little help. I have no programming experience so it's impossible for me.
The programming itself won't be beyond anything I can't already do. You could help with determining the parameters of the map transfer. If a couple more people get interested, we should officially start it up.

- MVSN
 

unmerged(24256)

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Why not the other way around?

Instead of converting savegames from EU2 -> Vic -> HoI, why not create scenarios for Vic from the other two games and create a program to carry the world from scenario to scenario?
 

G-Klav

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mvsnconsolegene said:
(...)
If a couple more people get interested, we should officially start it up.
(...)
I would be happy to help :)
 

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Will just delete my own thread. Happy to help as well :).
 

dralizaar

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I myself have long been thinking of and been working on the idea of a 1419 game grand campaign using the vic engine. The first choice is which 1419 scenario/mod to use..vanilla eu2, eep, agc or agc/eep to use as basis.

second off reworking the resources..involves renaming many of vic goods to those of eu2 timeframe <for example sails&rigging, spices, preious gems, silver, haning small arms to weapons< halberds/swords and breastplates> artillery to cannon, glass to chinaware? and so on removing nonappropriate goods and finding something else that fits the timeframe both as raw and as finished <ie manufactured> this would involve editing csv names for goods and creating new grapihal icons to link with the old names and of ourse reworking prie/demands and uses of each good as well as plaement on map per province

third to rework map of course redifining what provinces are what in vic to eu2 and assigning them to the various nations...invovled would be a tag match going through both whichever version of eu2 you use and vi and redefining in the csv eah tag that needs to be covered plus hanging graphis for flags as needed

fourth redoing techs in suh a way as that certain components needed toi olonize ie make laims are not available till the appropriate times for certain nations and that suh production is slow to prevent over placement of claims..perhaps linking tehs to "relgiious" leaning of the government as well as other main issues of the governemtn such as sliders affected in eu2 with high trade techs giving more of the trading post components while goods teh gives more of coaling station comps "colonies" and religious sub tehs give for missionaries...eu2 has 5 tech cats as does vic however eu2 has stability being one whih is covered in vi under crime fighting more or less..we can use this to over religious changes..as one progresses in this teh one can change government to a new type of religion and various sub effects and tax mods production mods and so on..with date linked event triggers to prevent too off beat changings. early naval techs an be very restritive to prevent ahistorical sailings around the world to conquer uncivilized nations make it so one has to really advance here to get ships that an survive deep ocean travel.

fifth changing units land units would be pikemen, aquebusiers<early tech would be crossbowmen/longbowmen and cavalry brigades would be cavalry pike arq or artillery naval would start with oastal galleys, sea galleys, early merchant, caravel, carrak, galleon, ship of the line 40 60 80 100 gun and frigate early transport and east indiamen with of ourse reworked cargo capacity to say what an carry troops and such plus ranges so earlier ships ant travel far. with reworked units this means muh reowrking eah nation starting OOB most nations in 1419 had rap for navies despite what folks kept giving them in eu2 set ups..the idea of giving frane and england warships to start is actually ludirous as both of these natiosn depending mainly on fishing boats and a few impressed merhants to ferry troops aross the channel and had no real sea fighting capability while nations like portugal and spain were just barely out of depending on galleys...also army sizes would have to be retuned..henvy v had barely 5000 men in france..if possible id reworked cost of units so that 1000 man divisions are formed at full rather than 10000 using adjusted manpower and such. a LOT needs working on here

next comes how to simulate trade routes...i think tehs in trade should allow rails..only insdtead of rails they are trade routes/roads refleted by inreasing the tax and production of lands they onnect..the higher your trade the greater the value..if possible id like to have more prodution out of colonies from this tech as well

as you an see a lot would need doing ill write more later as to what ive worked out if anyone is interested in my observations and work thus far
 

dralizaar

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added:

cots could be represented by provines with higher starting "trade route" levels at start and events ould add trade route levels <railroad levels> to provines to make them so called cots during the ourse of the game

trade routes should be trade tech based but also linked to lesser degree by infrastruture..maybe a 3 to 1 ratio where every 3 trade techs required to raise a trade route level also requires 1 certain infra tech to prevent too much fous on 1 tech line in exlusion of others with perhaps the highest trade route levels perhapos requiring ertain land and or sea teh to reach as well

politis also need serious review..vassalizations had various meanings in game terms...for some it merely meant a tithing or tribute and or military acess while in others it was total political ontrol up to and including sometimes foreign diplomacy..in the later ase vic satellite makes sense atually being more practical than eu2 vassals whih often started wars dragging you in..and often whih wouldnt help you when you went to war..whereas if they were sats they would automatially be allied with you for defene and offene..this forces us to review who really had that level of command and control..for example golden horde over the russian principalities.. In this case id reommend more of set treaties at start being war reparations and military aess for a number of years and possibly defence alliances with golden horde for each. for as long as these are in effet GH will receive a portion of their inome and have military acess like eu2 vassals gave but without cutting off diplomay options for these states whih historially did ondut much foreign diplomacy during this time especially muscovy. Other states also would be unlikely as satellites suh as sweden to denmark..sweden did onduct much of its own diplomacy without danish approval and involved in some skirmishes of its own despite being part of kalmar union...so what level of allianes are required here would need serious consideration. All of these vassal events and annexation events and royal marriages would need serious sit down and examining from various angles to see what exatly their impats were to determine whih political treaties and tools would best represent the net effects..for example would portugal atually be annexed or made a satellite under spain? prussia to poland a satellite or merely paying war indemnities for as long as they were a vassal and mil acess and or defence alliance?..

the review of the diplomay alone will takje much time as eah and every nation would need review and each major diplomati event cheked in this manor and obviously there would be disagreements as to extents of the treaties used..this area more than any other i think poses the greatest hallenge for implementing a 1419 scenario using vic..hallenge but very doable if folks are willing to try and be nonbiased about it hehe
 

dralizaar

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also of need would be a remaking of all leaders from eu2 stats to vic attributes..theres bound to be some ontention here as everyone has their favorites < i an just here some GARS fans demanding that he get every single good attribute somehow lol>

pop types should be fairly simple...slaves= serfs, farmers being slightly better off serfs who an own land? laborers being baseline workers <dockyard workers, wood, smithies, miners etc..> craftsmen being the more specialized for the factories and clerks being perhaps scientists <although their working in factories doesnt make sense> clergy being lergy with perhaps modified effects? aristorats being themselves and capitalists being trademasters richest merchants and officers being themselves <depending on how much unit size an be hanged id love to have avalry require almost all officers so infatry draws from soldiers while cavalry draws from officers<one an argue simply using equiv leadership plus baseline soldier costs with the leadership of appropriate size being the actual knights and suh while the soliders part being the pages, horse tenders, squires and baggage train such units often had with tehs eventually streamlining these units reducing the osts either in offiers oir soliders as the diretion fo their techs take them..unsure how muh of their baseline effets an be modded besides demands..id love to be able to custom their output and research bonus somewhat and or ability to work in factories



edit: review of pop types:

slaves instead of serfs should be natives/primitives to represent the peoples enountered while olonizing who are not yet produtive till onverted

farmers should be serfs while laborers be what they are miners and suh rest same as before
 
Last edited:

dralizaar

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goods types:

victoria eu2 equiv add as fiting
wool wool none
iron iron none
tea tea none
coffee coffee none
grain grain none
fish fish none
cotton cotton none
preious metal gold ** none
cattle none cattle
fruit wine ** none
sulphur none silver
coal none coal
silk chinaware ** none
oil none whale oil?
opium spices ** none
rubber none precious gems
tobacco tobacco none
dye none dye
lux.wood none furs
glass * none glass beads*
timber none timber
lumber * none sails/rigging *V*
fabric * cloth none *
cement * none worked stone
fertilizer * salt none
explosives *V* copper none <*>
artillery *V* none bronze cannon *V*
fuel * ivory none
telephones *V* sugar none
small arms *V* none weapons *V*
steel * none steel *
clipper convoy*V* none early merchant fleet *V*
steamer onvoy *V* none east indiamen fleet *V*
ammunition *V* none silk
regular clothes *V* none clothing *V*
luxury clothes *V* none fine clothes *V*
wine *V* none fine liquors *V*
liquor *V* none poor liquors *V*
paper * none paper
eletric gears * none books/broadsides *V*
tanks *V* none jewelry *
automobiles *V* none wagons *V*
airplanes *V* none fine carriages *V*
machine parts * none horses
luxury furniture *V* none iron cannon *V*
furniture *V* none furniture *V*

* = 1 stage produed item
*V* = 2 stages or more to produe
** = multiple interpretations of this item <diamonds silver gold and suh for gold, silk china art for chinaware drugs spies mediines for spies etc..chose overall main one ompensated for minor ones elsewhere>

? = unsure if to be a produed item say from fish or whether its to be a baseline product for certain ports

many of products of course would be tech or time sensitive

what do ya think? this is what im using to date in my attempts but its not set in stone if others have better ideas how to use the goods available id love to hear em
 

dralizaar

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forgot one resoure

canned food* none iron rations/rations * <fish/cattle/salt>

also debated shifting some around to add 2 resoures <would have to remove 2 to do it> being urrency gold and silver.. all pop types would buy it as regular and even more for luxury..mints would manufacture it and they would take raw silver and goild to produce gold and silver curreny sold on market would provide muh of national treasuries of time perhaps...just playing with this idea not sold all the way on it yet..if i go with it wagons will be removed not sure other...any thoughts yet? hate to think all those views and no one has an opinion :( lol
 

mvsnconsolegene

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Yes, I am still interested in working on the project. I've been contacted by one other person (Grey Ghost) who is willing to put some time towards it. If one or two more people contact me, let's get this ball rolling :) .

- MVSN
 

mvsnconsolegene

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mvsnconsolegene said:
Yes, I am still interested in working on the project. I've been contacted by one other person (Grey Ghost) who is willing to put some time towards it. If one or two more people contact me, let's get this ball rolling :) .

- MVSN
I could swear I started this thread, or did they merge it.

Anyways, please contact me at my email address or PM me.

- MVSN
 

Chaingun

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1819 to 1836 Converter Proposal

EDIT: Gah there is a thread below which deals with the same thing. Could some moderator merge this thread with the other one?

EDIT vol2: Sure, Grosshaus

Hello to all. Before I start, I want to mention that anything I speak of here I make no guarantee I will make or work with. I'm just asking myself the question whether the huge undertaking would be worth it, or possible.

My proposal is that I could write a converter for 1819 EU2 save games to Victoria 1836 save games. Before you start laughing, I'd say I'm sufficiently fluid in C++ and file handling to make a program like this. Else I'm sure someone else could. The big problem however, is the issue about how to translate EU2 save game data into Victoria save game data. There is also a an issue about the strange game world that would be initialized into Victoria, not at all close to the real campaign. Would anyone even consider to continue playing under these conditions?

Let's compare the save game formats. Victoria and EU2 use the same basic file format. The actual differences begin in the data itself. In order to convert an EU2 game to a Victoria game the following things would have to be taken care of:

1. Years. The years between the end of the EU2 grand campaign and the start of the Victoria GC would probably have to be considered in some way, although they initially could be totally ignored.
2. Provinces. There are a lot more provinces in Victoria than in EU2. It could just be managable however by letting a X province in EU2 represent Y provinces in Victoria.
3. Armies and fleets. How the &#!"/&#! does one convert EU2 military units? Giving X divisions for Y number of men or what?
4. Technology. Perhaps this could be solved by letting a certain interval tech of EU2 tech give certain levels of Victoria tech for a country.
5. Countries. There aren't nearly as many countries in EU2 as there are in Victoria, and many of them do not have the same names. This could be lived through however by simply placing down certain countries without any regard to historical accuracy.
6. POPs, factories & the WM. These elements are very different in Victoria. WM data could however be importanted from the real Victoria GC, and the same applies to POP data. Factories could be placed based on the number of manufactories.
7. Center of trades. These EU2 high value provinces would probably be needed to be represented somehow as high value Victoria provinces. One might accomplish this by factories, high population or something else.
8. Terra incognita. As far as I'm concerned the corresponding provinces would most likely be initialized as empty, colonizable provinces.
9. AI and events. The AI events are a huge problems, considering a lot of event files maybe don't take into account when certain countries don't exist (I think of majors like England here). The AI is pretty screwed as well.
10. Diplomacy. This is not a major problem; EU2 treaties are probably happily converted to Victoria treaties.
11. DP settings and religion. While religion is really important in EU2, it becomes much less important in Victoria. It is of course suitable for the time period, but huge losses might take place here. And how would one reflect the DP settings of an EU2 country in Victoria?
12. Any other Victoria specific data could probably be imported from the Victoria GC as previously mentioned. It requires it is not too closely tied to the existance of countries however.

As can be seen there is a HUGE number of problems with a potential conversion tool. However, I do think it might just be possible to pull off.
 
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mvsnconsolegene

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Chaingun said:
mvsnconsolegene check your email ;).
I have :). I think we now have enough people to officially start something up. I have been contacted by you and one other person (email said "Grey Ghost"). Send me a private message Grey Ghost, so I know who you are in the forum.

So, why don't you check your mail now Chaingun :).

- MVSN

I say we proceed as follows. We divide up the project into seperate parts, it would be nice to have one person head up every part, but we'll probably have to double up. To begin with, we are going to have to deal conceptually. The programming can wait until we've decided exactly how to proceed.

And then we'll start up a thread that only members should post on and this thread can remain for anyone who wants to add something but not necessarily help us directly. Sound good?
 

Chaingun

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I'll check my email when I get home from school (that is very late this evening ;/ ). My capabilities to communicate here in school are rather limited to the forums.

I do realize we will have to do a lot of planning first. One of my initial concerns is that it might be difficult to generate a valid Victoria save game from scratch, which will load and run without problems. As I mentioned in my post above it is because many countries might be missing that would normally be included in the campaign. In how many normal Victoria campaigns is England missing for example?

For raw data I think the most immediate tasks is to create a table of EU2 province numbers that contain a certain number of Victoria province numbers. Also a list of EU2 tags need to be created to map onto Victoria country tags. I think other conversions such as manufactories to factories can wait a bit, until we know what we are dealing with.

Over and out.
 
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