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ohms_law

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hello everyone,
After reading about the utility that will be included in crusader kings to to convert end games to EU2, it got me thinking. thers only a short period of time between EU2, Vic, and HOI. it should be feasable to take a last day save game from EU2 and convert it to a scenario for VIC. then the same would be true of HOI.
Granted, this would be alot of work, but not extremely so...
anyone interested besides me?
 

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Getting started thoughts.

ok, to kick this off, a few thoughts.
the provences are not the same thoughtout the three games obviously. so the first thing to do is to come up with a conversion process for the EU2 provence id's in the save game to an owned/core provences in a scenario file for VIC.
I think the best thing to do would be to make up country include files for each nation in the EU2 save game, wouldnt it?
what would also need to be converted would be the military units of EU2 to VIC units. there would have to be a fairly set pattern for converting the ammounts of infantry/calvalry/artillery in EU2 to infanty, calvalry , and infantry with an arty brig. to VIC

my only real problem (for the next week anyway), is that im away from home, so I dont have the games with me. some short examples for savegames might be helpfull here...
 

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I actually think that this kind of idea is more feasable that one might think. The key would be someone with the experience to make the program to actually change the savegame. Past that, establishing the province and military equalities is time-consuming, but not hard, I don't think.

Now, I'm not currently familiar with the Vicky scenario setup, but are factory productions and such tied in with nations, or states? That might prove to be a serious bump. If such important features in world market stability are tied into nations at the beginning, accounting for all of the differences might prove tricky...or it might not.

So, overall, a more practical idea that some might think.

I'd personally be willing to help with province converting.
 

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This might help:

FAQ Atlas

It's the Atlas in the FAQ, and lists all of the province names and their IDs from Vicky. I'll check and see about EU2.

EDIT: Ayup...here it is.

EU2 FAQ Atlas
 

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actually making the program itself wont be that difficult. I was planning on at least starting to code it myself in a couple of weeks. all it is going to be is a text parser that writes some text files as output in a specific format. real basic programming...

the difficult parts are all the decisions on what gets converted to what. ie.: figuring out that id de france in EU2 is provice xxx, which is equil to paris in VIC as province yyy.
as for populations, I was thinking that just making a compatable file for the popmaker utilitywould suffice.
manufacutries are basically equivilent to factories in VIC. some standard factory placements would most likely be required however. but, since factories are in regions in VIC and manufacutries are in provinces in EU2, some deviations would (and IMHO, should) be required. generally though, it should be pretty easy, we just need to hash out what changes to what exactly.
 

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ShrineGuard said:
This might help:

FAQ Atlas

It's the Atlas in the FAQ, and lists all of the province names and their IDs from Vicky. I'll check and see about EU2.

EDIT: Ayup...here it is.

EU2 FAQ Atlas

alright, some progress! thanks man. long time player, but fairly new to the boards...

from a short look at the atlases, this is gonna be pretty easy. its just gonna take some time to type it all into a set of conversion tables is all.
granted, the provences wont all be one to one, but thats ok. we'll just have to come up with some standard solutions as the problem locations come to light is all.
 

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for factories ...for weapons factories you can convert em on a ratio thingy..say 1st weapons becomes a small arms 2nd a munition 3rd canned foods 4th explosives 5th artillery and repeat..with a utility to place them in relative same regions/prov vs states and check for doubles..in case of doubles simply make it level 2 or 3 or so on

goods would be your basics..glass fabric steel cement and lumber <paper?>
naval would be clipper_convoys lumber and fabric <maybe steamer convoys>
trade would be furniture winerys liquor regular clothes

dont give luxury at start ...assign machine parts based off an abstraction ration of their goods efficency rating ie those natiosn that focused heavily on goods factories and such would be more industrialized than a trade nation

as for goods to start with simply give each nations 1 month supply of its full production as if every rgo and factory had been run at full prior to game start
 

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dralizaar said:
for factories ...for weapons factories you can convert em on a ratio thingy..say 1st weapons becomes a small arms 2nd a munition 3rd canned foods 4th explosives 5th artillery and repeat..with a utility to place them in relative same regions/prov vs states and check for doubles..in case of doubles simply make it level 2 or 3 or so on

goods would be your basics..glass fabric steel cement and lumber <paper?>
naval would be clipper_convoys lumber and fabric <maybe steamer convoys>
trade would be furniture winerys liquor regular clothes

dont give luxury at start ...assign machine parts based off an abstraction ration of their goods efficency rating ie those natiosn that focused heavily on goods factories and such would be more industrialized than a trade nation

as for goods to start with simply give each nations 1 month supply of its full production as if every rgo and factory had been run at full prior to game start
thanks drazilaar,
Thats right along the lines of what I was thinking of doing.
One other thing were gonna have to work out is converting from CoT's to the WM.
I dont think it would neccesarily be a good idea to place 2 or 3 different factories to a state with less than that many manufaturies. one thing i was thinking of doing (although its gonna take alot of work typing!) is to convert say, goods manufaturies, to a factory of the type of resource most previlent in the state. ie.: if the USA at the end of EU2 has a goods manufaturie in Santee, then in the VIC conversion, Virginia would have a fabric factory.
As for the other types of EU manufacturies, here are my thoughts right now.
Naval should probably be a straight conversion to Clipper_Convoy. My thinking here is that up until the 1800's, pretty much the only shipbuilding is clippers... additionally, fabric and lumber should be taken care of already.
for weapons manufacturies, I think a ratio based on the owning nation's force structure would be the way to go. small arms, artillery, munitions, and explosives being the factories converted too, if there are more artillery in the nation's army there is a greater chance of it converting to an artillery or explosives factory. small arms factories should be, IMHO, the most common though.

I agree with no luxury factories. cant think of anything that would cause one to spring up prior to 1835 (disregarding a COMPLETELY ahistorical game of course).

i also am gonna go with a months supply of production for everyone. that should work out well.

Basically, my thoughs are that the conversion shouldnt create extremely different worlds than is the norm for a VIC GC. you should get approximately similar starts, with the boarders and army's from the save. I dont plan on introducing changes such as the industrial revolution starting in mongolia or sum such.

that being said, how does everyone think I ought to handle savegames that ARE crazy? for instance, say one were france or england doesnt exist? any thoughts?
 
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I was thinking of writing one myself, but didn't really cherish the idea of shifting through all provinces one by one times two.

For factories, I was actually thinking of creating one factory for every province that has a manufactory, therefore, if the state has 5 provinces and all of them have a manufactory, then the state in VIC will have 5 factories.

But, the problem is (in my EU2 games, at least), I don't usually build that many manufactories in EU, so there won't be a hell of a lot of factories in the VIC comversion, and that would make things a bit difficult to play. I can just have a minimum default number of factories perhaps.
 

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This thread looks like it's gonna be the favorite thread for most people here... i'm amazed.. good work.
 

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This is a brilliant idea, I never would have imagined it was even possible.
 

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Hey Ohms Law,

Do you want me to go ahead and start writing up the province equivilencies? If so, what kind of format would you want that in?
 

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sure thing shrineguard, thanks man.
as for format, just some form of text is fine. i have Word if you want to use that. I can convert text to anything else that become needed.
anything like this that anyone wants to donate, best place to send it would be
 
Last edited:

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Advocatus Sancti Sepulcri
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ohms_law said:
t........................

ie.: if the USA at the end of EU2 has a goods manufaturie in Santee, then in the VIC conversion, Virginia would have a fabric factory.

................................

Hope the province conversion goes better than this post. Santee is in South Carolina. :D
 

ShrineGuard

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We sure do! Anywhere but to you! ;)

Hehe, just kidding. We will surely need some flag work done, due to the fact that there are EU2 nations that don't exist in Vicky, and thus need flags.

That brings to mind that many new nations will have to be crafted, and we only have 20 usable new flag spots, so we'll have to figure that out.

We'll also have to figure out how to deal with things like the terra incognita...random thoughts flowing here.
 

ohms_law

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Sonny said:
Hope the province conversion goes better than this post. Santee is in South Carolina. :D
LOL
forgive me. dont have either game with me ATM. im on 'vacation'. haha
got the point across though. ;)
 

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ShrineGuard said:
...........................

We'll also have to figure out how to deal with things like the terra incognita...random thoughts flowing here.
Really TI should not be a big problem. For most of it you could just leave it the way it is in Victoria since in EU2 no one can conquer it. If some of it is surrounded by a country in EU2 you might want to give it to that country in Victoria but I don't know if it is possible to completely surround the TI in EU2. Well it may be but I don't think it would happen too many times.
 

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ShrineGuard said:
We'll also have to figure out how to deal with things like the terra incognita...random thoughts flowing here.
eh, dont think thas such a problem. we'll just have to come up with a standard way to extend out conutries that border the PTI regions. the worst PTI, IIRC, is really through russia. kinda obvious who that will belong to in most cases, dont you think? ;)
 

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I'm happy to help anyway I can in converting from Victoria to HOI. (I don't have EU2) Unfortunatly, I don't know jack about programming so I wouldn't be able to help much there.