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By proposing new trade rules, I hope that what was until now the most boring part of the game can be interesting too. It's too bad that trade is there, almost interesting to play, and yet nobody uses it. Sending merchants should really be as exciting and powerful as sending explorers, settlers or armies.

Not controlling the merchants/explorers/settlers, while certainly more accurate and thus a considerable temptation, would not be quite as fun. This is an historical game after all, not a hands-off simulation. (Or else, the only game interface would be to speak to various people, and the game would not last four centuries!) Moreover, for each of those types, a sound argument can be made that kings could direct them when they really wanted to: Louis XIV sent the «*Filles du Roi*»*to help settle New France, a lot of explorations (Drake, Vasco da Gama, even Columbus) were directed at a specific passage, and merchants were also directed (the various Companies that were created by royal assent are a good example!), the Darien Scheme also fits (btw, this is funny that it does not appear in AGCEEP!).

If we want to make it a bit more random, some stupid idea would be that explorers/conquistadors, when sent to an unexplored province, would have instead some random chance of going the wrong way (in another unexplored province, or even turned back by a storm!). After all, even though they had some precise orders, the weather ruled supreme. I'd like it to be tied to the Manoeuver stat; Explorers could also be ordered to make landfall to discover a land province. This could also apply to settlers: they could get lost on their way, and mistakenly settle in the wrong province (wasn't the Mayflower Virginia-bound?). But I fear that this could become really aggravating.

I definitely agree with tying some possibilities with tech. The fact that the infra/trade techs don't have any «*goodies*» after level 4 or 6 has always been a big disappointment. As far as choosing the level goes, I would try and match this to history; so the «*force embargo*» diplomatic action should require about infra 8-10. Likewise, high trade level should enable some blockade-running to be done: for example, a blockaded province should maintain a portion of its trade value, and blockade should not be as efficient for sieges (or you would need a larger fleet). I think this was done in the American independence war, but not much before; correct me if I'm wrong. And since trade research represents the capabilities of merchant ships, this is certainly the good tech to tie blockade-running to.

And a couple extra ideas.

* The Manoeuver stat is a bit useless right now (except for attrition). It could be used for the first assault in a battle (thus being more important in rugged terrain, which seems fine since a plain like Waterloo doesn't help the good manoeuvering generals!). Some of the greatest victories of the time period were done by manoeuvre alone (Frederick II at Rossbach, Napoléon at Ulm). This could also be used to hide your real army strength (again, Frederick and Napoléon played this game a lot).

* As we all know, the number of troops in sieges is a bit wrong. Maybe a high fortress level shouldn't increase much the numbers needed to siege a province, while it could give a better advantage to the defending garrison in an assault, thus effectively requiring a bigger army to successfully assault it. (This is obviously linked to the above-mentioned blockade-running). The bonus to the garrison should be additive and not multiplicative, so that it accurately gets proportionally less interesting as technology improves (a medieval castle is useless against artillery, and Vauban fortifications were going out of style in Napoléon's time). This could even be more detailed: each time you make an assault, you have a chance of taking *some part* (bastion, half-moon, ...) of the fortifications. When you have taken enough, the city is yours. (Think of Orléans before Joan of Arc: the English have a well-started siege since they hold some of the towers). This would make sieges a bit more climactic, which is always good.
 
Circonflexe said:
* The Manoeuver stat is a bit useless right now (except for attrition). It could be used for the first assault in a battle (thus being more important in rugged terrain, which seems fine since a plain like Waterloo doesn't help the good manoeuvering generals!). Some of the greatest victories of the time period were done by manoeuvre alone (Frederick II at Rossbach, Napoléon at Ulm). This could also be used to hide your real army strength (again, Frederick and Napoléon played this game a lot).

I really like this idea, except i would have it through the full battle as per the fire etc etc. generals maneuvered their troops in battle
 
Toio said:
I really like this idea, except i would have it through the full battle as per the fire etc etc. generals maneuvered their troops in battle

Absolutely in agreement.

I think it's possibly the most important aspect of the combat sequence in the middle land tech levels here.

In the early tech levels, shock (morale breaking) should be the most significant and by Napoleon's time, fire should be equal in value with manouver, but from about tech level 10 to 30, manouever ought to top the list.
 
In my current game I joined a war against the Brandenburg, Kleve, Prussia, Venice-alliance. And every single of them had me trade embargoed from "their Centers of Trade" but Venice.
And only Venice actually *had* a center of trade....

Could that be changed so that only countries who actually have a CoT can tradeembargo others from their CoT?
 
ConjurerDragon said:
Could that be changed so that only countries who actually have a CoT can tradeembargo others from their CoT?
Trade embargo has an influence on provinces owned by the country that declares embargo and included in the area of a COT of the embargoed country.
 
My greatest hope is that you would implent a new MP engine. :) It makes so many problems which causes the MP community to not grow large. Too much hassle and in the end it doesn't work. :) I know this is a hard task almost impossible without being paid loads of money and having a great team to coop. But hey if you get all the rest done then you have a last thing to do. :D
 
cool-toxic said:
My greatest hope is that you would implent a new MP engine. :) It makes so many problems which causes the MP community to not grow large. Too much hassle and in the end it doesn't work. :) I know this is a hard task almost impossible without being paid loads of money and having a great team to coop. But hey if you get all the rest done then you have a last thing to do. :D

very valid point indeed now that i got "back " to mp games. no matter how cool something is if it can not be applied properlly :(
also my understanding is that agceep is NOT suitable for mps for various reasons, the main one beeing the imposibility to "ghost" certain nations. would it be possible to create an "on and "off" option( within save files?) to block events only for the specific countries mentioned above??( something that could be done quick, without modiffing files and files....and files again)
 
YodaMaster said:
Could you explain the meaning of "ghosting" certain nations?


"ghosting"--- when a player can not make certain session, and the GM would like to keep nation "as it is", intact, etc, for the next sessions when player returns. having many events, while very cool for as a player of course, they are an impediment in beeing able to keep an ai nation "innert".
 
Do you mean freeze all actions for the country and make default choice in events?

Not easy... what about possible revolts, civil wars, DoW by other countries (or by event), loans, etc?

A country cannot be fully inert.
 
YodaMaster said:
A country cannot be fully inert.
But it can. In MP you join with a second instance of eu2 and select 2 countries (same player). Once game is started, the player leaves one instance and violá, the country he left is ghosted. That country can do absolutely nothing.

If there was an easier way to accomplish this result, as it also fucks up events, and basically makes it impossible to ghost a player in an AGCEEP campaign (with lots of events), by having some sort of inactive-moddable AI-ghost, would totally rock.

All the AI-ghost would do is select the right option in events, kill rebels and possibly trade a bit, depending.
 
* The Manoeuver stat is a bit useless right now (except for attrition). It could be used for the first assault in a battle (thus being more important in rugged terrain, which seems fine since a plain like Waterloo doesn't help the good manoeuvering generals!). Some of the greatest victories of the time period were done by manoeuvre alone (Frederick II at Rossbach, Napoléon at Ulm). This could also be used to hide your real army strength (again, Frederick and Napoléon played this game a lot).

Or so you say. Many times my leader saved his army and himself because he moved faster then the enemy leader in multiplayer. Sometimes i managed to catch the enemy leader and engage it before he managed to retreat as well.

And hell, with sky high values, like 6, you might be able to move into a province your enemy is retreating to, before he arives on it, and thus get the so-wanted defensive bonus. Notably nasty and effective when crossing a river.

While, obviously, your enemy might retreat with almost no casualties, you will get a lot of battle WS due to his mistakes. Many wars i managed to prolongue, and even win, because my enemies failed to get enough WS to stab hit me due to that (battle WS), even when they held plenty of my provinces.

Also, you cant properly understimate the maneuver stats for explorers or navies overall.

--------------

But i do agree with you that it could be made more useful.
 
What I would like to see would be more civil options.

For example more buildings:

- Province infrastructure (could be displayed as the street leading out of the city wall. (4 levels from none over bad roads etc.. costs small gold, gives small trading bonus and production bonus, increses speed of passing troops [or makes the province smaller].)
- Spiritual builiding (the church/temple in the middle). 4-5 levels, wich cost a lot of gold, lower revoltrisk if the state religion is the same as the province religion, otherwise it raises conversionchance. Gives a slight bonus on missionaries, give a slight stability investment.
- Education (2-3 levels: boarding school/College/University, lowers all tech costs, raises stability costs, small bonus on production and even smaller on trade)
- Administration (2-3 levels, lowers revolt risk a bit, higher taxes, small admin bonus for monarch)
- Palace (only capital 5-6 levels, very expensive, dip bonus for monarch, victory points).
- Harbour (4-5 levels, higher trader income, bonus on center of trade income, small production and tax bonus)
 
What I would LOVE to see is possibility to extract an annual tribute of any amount as a result of peace resolution. Annual tribute of non-predefined height could also occur in other occasions - like vassalage, trade agreements etc.
 
It would be great if vassals could join the alliance of their master even if he is not the alliance leader.
 
Dark Scipio said:
It would be great if vassals could join the alliance of their master even if he is not the alliance leader.
Well, the whole vassal/alliance system needs overhauling, and this is one option. We've discussed this some, but we haven't decided what will be done in the first release.
 
MichaelM said:
we haven't decided what will be done in the first release.


Could you state at least approximate date of release? Or at least - could you inform players about how advanced the state of work is right now?
 
trybald said:
Could you state at least approximate date of release?
Giving out that sort of information is YodaMaster's decision.
Or at least - could you inform players about how advanced the state of work is right now?
Giving that sort of information out is Johan's decision--if he doesn't approve it, nothing gets posted.
 
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