Waiting for the Beys event and 30yw leaders when doing so is anti-RP.
Attacking OE instead of France is anti-BOP.
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Waiting for the Beys event and 30yw leaders when doing so is anti-RP.
Attacking OE instead of France is anti-BOP.
Well, the evangelic Union only reacted to the war. We did not decided when the war started.
And, since our chief efforts have been defeat french troops in Austria (bar an uncessusful GA II offensive in Milan), well we were containing the french attack more than attacking France.
I have to say I was somewhat disappointed, but not at all surprised, that the "Grand Alliance," waited for the Beys event, GA2 and the Austrian generals. Slargos had intimidated to me that this game would lean towards RP when I joined, but I guess I need to check my assumptions next time. Dild is obviously a crafty player who's interested in winning at Europa Universalis, all the more power to him. I'm more concerned with the interesting sort of diplomacy that's gone on, though.
It was a good war. I'm a bit irritated at the propensity of my troops to lose to Austrian leaders even when defending rivers and with massive cavalry advantage, but that's not an issue.
As for the discussion going on here, I don't think anyone reasonably refutes that Sweden, Denmark, Austria, Spain and Brandenburg, with tacit support from England and Russia, ganged up against France and the OE. I think we can all draw our own historical conclusions and not get caught up in semantics. All I can say is that my enthusiasm for the game has decreased slightly if it's going to slowly turn into a powergame fest.
EDIT: By the way, I still support a restart as I did before the war, before you guys start accusing me of being an asshole.
It was a good war. I'm a bit irritated at the propensity of my troops to lose to Austrian leaders even when defending rivers and with massive cavalry advantage, but that's not an issue.
As for the discussion going on here, I don't think anyone reasonably refutes that Sweden, Denmark, Austria, Spain and Brandenburg, with tacit support from England and Russia, ganged up against France and the OE. I think we can all draw our own historical conclusions and not get caught up in semantics. All I can say is that my enthusiasm for the game has decreased slightly if it's going to slowly turn into a powergame fest.
EDIT: By the way, I still support a restart as I did before the war, before you guys start accusing me of being an asshole.
Since the participation of the Northern Alliance has been chiefly against a french offensive in Austria, I do not think that the participation is part of a powergame fest. As far as I know, no danish soldier has fought against a single turkish one. The participation has been very limited: one theatre of operations, one foe.
And if the powergame fest is about asking 4 provinces, well at least Denmark agrees. 4 provinces in one war is too much. The OE to cede to Austria 4 provinces should be completely vanquished, and that is not the situation as far as I know.
I disagree. Austria doesn't own Hungary and lost most of italy to France. They have Brandeburg north of them taking german minors.
Actually, this is the weakest Austria possible. So it's quite normal for Austria to turn towards OE and for other christian nations to support this direction rather than towards themselves.
Any austrian player would try to get back hungary.
Hmm... if you mean that you had not decided ot join the war or not before the war started, I don't believe it. I'm not gonna copy any alliance talks, but I'm sure that it was mentioned more then three times that you were in the war if France joins it.
Besides, France entered a defensive war, not an offensive war. So neither OE nor France would probably take anything from Austria.
Wrong. Dild, Hungary has NEVER been owned by Austria in this game, and not even in the time before this game. The former king of Hungary surrended to OE and gave most of his territory to OE. Austria got the german provinces, and some minor got one. So I'm not really sure what you are talking about. Hungary is yours by right? Do you mean that you have cores on them? In that case let me tell you that OE has cores on Steiermark, so that makes it theirs by right?
Another thing, France could not win a war against Austria/Spain alone. Sure the french troops marched into western Austria and Spain. But soon enough they were beat out of Spain, and focused all on Austria instead. Why could not Austria defend themself? Mainly because their were the agressors against another country.
The last thing is that OE could not beat Austria alone with the Magyar prvoinces. If Austrian troops would be fighting in the west against France, the french would not had got a single province. So basically Austria is now getting stronger, OE weaker. So now Austria can win even more easily against the OE.
This is of course only from me, who was not a part of the war. But that's what I saw.
Edit: About Italy, Austria can suit herself for not going there first.
take it easy DzD, i dont know what have happen before i took over austria, i only know that there situation was bad. And me claiming Hungary, i cant see a problem in that, i should have inherited that territory, now i know, why i didn't. But why shoudn't I persue it, i have the culture, i have the means, the timing was good OE is pressed.
And italy.....
Well i took over the game, while at war with spain , i fought hard to end it, and still capture some provinces in italy, but only 1 year into the game, I was struck in the back by brandenburg and france ( no offense, perfect attack ). But i didn't even have the time get in control of austria, so i lost the war, which I accepted. So relax, if you have a problem with austria take it up with the last player, I am doing what i am supposed to, protecting catholism against the turks.
Originally posted by Dild
So relax, if you have a problem with austria take it up with the last player, I am doing what i am supposed to, protecting catholism against the turks.
And this is best facilitated by invading muslim hungary?
Now, if you were dead set on protecting catholicism, don't you think that great grey blob of heretics on your northern border would be a more likely target?
hehe, not my fault it was converted
And you helped the grey blob, so now i can do nothing HEHE
And you helped the grey blob, so now i can do nothing
HEHE
I am relaxed, I allways (mostly ) am.
I'm not mad that you attacked OE, I would probably have done the same thing. But taking 4 provinces is way to much. And then coming up with a reason for it and say that you're protecting catholism while Hungary is muslim/protestant IIRC is not good IMO. Focus on the north instead. On people that force vassalize their neighbours and when they brake the vassalization, that particular country annexes them instead. No countries mentioned.
) am.I'm not mad that you attacked OE, I would probably have done the same thing. But taking 4 provinces is way to much. And then coming up with a reason for it and say that you're protecting catholism while Hungary is muslim/protestant IIRC is not good IMO. Focus on the north instead. On people that force vassalize their neighbours and when they brake the vassalization, that particular country annexes them instead. No countries mentioned.
Nop, I only said that we do not decided *when* the war started. No if we could support Austria if France joined.
First of all I'd like to say that England still supports this war to be only 1 vs. 1 Ottos/Austria.
Slargos, you must understand that a France owning all of Italy is a general threat towards everyone.
If the war had only been between Austria and the Ottos, I guess nobody would have interfered.
But since you took part in that war, it was clear that Austria would have lost badly against your Uber-France.
You can imagine that most players are interested in an at least competitive Austria, specially under the current circumstances of France owning Italy.
At least for me, and I can only speak of myself, this war is fought to save Austria from getting crushed between you and the Ottos.
The point I'm trying to make is that this war is not against you but for Austria.
If it was against you, I would have attacked you in the North. But so far the Protestant allience has made no moves to attack France on her ground. All we did was occupying your forces in the Alps so Austria doesn't have to fight on two fronts which would definatly not have worked out for them.
As I told you before the war, England has no interest to fight you but we understand our allies fear that with Austria in ashes France would be unquestioned ruler of Europe.
Anyway, as stated before, this war is not against France, even if we had all the reasons for it (Italy, Embargo...)
So I find it a bit amusing that you talk about your long memory etc. when noone has attacked you yet.
On another note, I had thought of this war to be somehow limited to Austrian/Ottoman lands. I know this might as well just be my undertstanding but after all it was one of the reasons I have not attacked you in the north. So I was kind of surprised when I saw your troops marching through the Netherlands towards Brandenburg.
Well, to draw the circle, I still hope that this dispute can be solved diplomatically. England offers to step out of the war immediatly if all other parties agree to do the same.
But one thing is clear to me, I won't let Austria be destroyed or further weakend for the sake of French hegemony.
Slargos, you must understand that a France owning all of Italy is a general threat towards everyone.
If the war had only been between Austria and the Ottos, I guess nobody would have interfered.
But since you took part in that war, it was clear that Austria would have lost badly against your Uber-France.
You can imagine that most players are interested in an at least competitive Austria, specially under the current circumstances of France owning Italy.
At least for me, and I can only speak of myself, this war is fought to save Austria from getting crushed between you and the Ottos.
The point I'm trying to make is that this war is not against you but for Austria.
If it was against you, I would have attacked you in the North. But so far the Protestant allience has made no moves to attack France on her ground. All we did was occupying your forces in the Alps so Austria doesn't have to fight on two fronts which would definatly not have worked out for them.
As I told you before the war, England has no interest to fight you but we understand our allies fear that with Austria in ashes France would be unquestioned ruler of Europe.
Anyway, as stated before, this war is not against France, even if we had all the reasons for it (Italy, Embargo...)
So I find it a bit amusing that you talk about your long memory etc. when noone has attacked you yet.
On another note, I had thought of this war to be somehow limited to Austrian/Ottoman lands. I know this might as well just be my undertstanding but after all it was one of the reasons I have not attacked you in the north. So I was kind of surprised when I saw your troops marching through the Netherlands towards Brandenburg.
Well, to draw the circle, I still hope that this dispute can be solved diplomatically. England offers to step out of the war immediatly if all other parties agree to do the same.
But one thing is clear to me, I won't let Austria be destroyed or further weakend for the sake of French hegemony.
Of course, and actually I think we agree. I did state that I think Dild is a crafty player, and he is doing what he thinks will improve his position. This is not at all an indictment of his skills as an EUII player.
EDIT: I think it's a bit unfair to cry "game balance" on Slargos for honoring his (historical) alliance after the OE's enemies waited until just after the crippling Beys event to attack. Again, this is not a personal attack by any means.
Clearly this war was about 2 issues: The Archduke also is the legitimate Crown Royal of Hungary, and as such has the right to regain Buda and Pest. If France had not threatened Vienna and the future of the HRE itself, this could and should have been a regional issue.
Secondly, the French Mercantile act destroyed the previous goodwill we had with France, considering we tried to offer a compromise of a small trade prescence in French CoT's but were completely rebuffed. We seek to renew friendly relations with The French Crown, but the merchant class in Sweden is extremely powerful, and even the great Gustav cannot ignore their anger. Trade is the lifeblood of the Swedish State, and an unrestricted trade war is a grave challenge that will not be accepted calmly.
{ooc: I defintely did not wait for Gustav before fighting, tho of course when tensions raise Im much more likely to fight with him in the mix Personally I really don't want to be fighting france, but there comes a time when 1 nation gets so strong (e.g. France with 80% of Italy) you have to check them a bit for the health of the game. Brandenburg was eager for war, and embargoing me usually draws a DOW sooner or later. I'm all for a swift conclusion to this, with Austria not exploiting our help by demanding too harshly, and France coming to a fair agreement as far as world trade goes. }
Secondly, the French Mercantile act destroyed the previous goodwill we had with France, considering we tried to offer a compromise of a small trade prescence in French CoT's but were completely rebuffed. We seek to renew friendly relations with The French Crown, but the merchant class in Sweden is extremely powerful, and even the great Gustav cannot ignore their anger. Trade is the lifeblood of the Swedish State, and an unrestricted trade war is a grave challenge that will not be accepted calmly.
{ooc: I defintely did not wait for Gustav before fighting, tho of course when tensions raise Im much more likely to fight with him in the mix
Personally I really don't want to be fighting france, but there comes a time when 1 nation gets so strong (e.g. France with 80% of Italy) you have to check them a bit for the health of the game. Brandenburg was eager for war, and embargoing me usually draws a DOW sooner or later. I'm all for a swift conclusion to this, with Austria not exploiting our help by demanding too harshly, and France coming to a fair agreement as far as world trade goes. }
If that is the case then maybe i should go for thrace, I hold Banat very dear to me
The wisest words I have read in this entire thread.
Playing RP is not always the same as playing it 100% historically, as historical preresequites may change.
And like others has done so far, I too would like to point out that we are not fighting offensively with any goals for ourselves in mind - but striclty trying to defend Austria from France. But having reviewed the situation, 4 provs in 1 war may be a bit harsh. And Brandenburg is willing to sign white peace with all parts and let Austria and OE sort this out themselves.
"blah balh balh BoP blah blah blah"
This is all good and well, folks.. but why aren't you attacking France if this is your main concern?
This is all good and well, folks.. but why aren't you attacking France if this is your main concern?
Originally posted by Slargos
"blah balh balh BoP blah blah blah"
This is all good and well, folks.. but why aren't you attacking France if this is your main concern?
Do you not read our posts? We wanted Austria to grow stronger on behalf of OE (who can just move further towards the east instead).
We didn't want a war against France per se, but knew that you would join OE - and that you would crush Austria and Spain if they stood alone.