EU: The Next Generation

[unmerged(19125)]

yes, an austria that needed a lot of rebuilding, i am not even nearly as advanced as i should. And allthough up and running, still burdened by the former austrian player's actions.

Simple fact is hungary is by right, inherited by austria, and now I reclaim it. Its not like france has a claim on all of italy, and you really took some provinces there

And France joining forces with the turks -> BAD, you should be crusading against them, long live catholism

 

[unmerged(8869)]

Originally posted by Slargos
And honestly, guys.. did you REALLY think I would let Spain and Austria gang-rape OE without intervening?

The war could have remained a limited one between OE and Austria. That was surely the spanish favourite choice.

Spain joined the war only after France did. It's France that decided this to become a general war. The presence of infidel turks in hungary is unacceptable and Spain supports Austria's rightful claim on those lands.

We have no interest in a weak France but we do have interests in having the Asburgs rule their catholic lands.

 

[Hive]

Originally posted by KaiserGab
We have no interest in a weak France but we do have interests in having the Asburgs rule their catholic lands.

You want whom to rule Hungary?

 

[Hive]

And Slarg: although 4 provs may seem as a lot it must be seen in perspective: Hungary belongs to Austria. Hungary is not very valuable. OE is huge, and has lots of other, more valuable provs.

 

[Slargos]

Originally posted by KaiserGab
The war could have remained a limited one between OE and Austria. That was surely the spanish favourite choice.

Spain joined the war only after France did. It's France that decided this to become a general war. The presence of infidel turks in hungary is unacceptable and Spain supports Austria's rightful claim on those lands.

We have no interest in a weak France but we do have interests in having the Asburgs rule their catholic lands.

No. Spain joined the war when Austria declared war. If Spain hadn't joined the war, it would have been a whole different deal.
When Spain pressed "accept", it turned into a big war.

Let me expand: You join the war when you press "accept" in the "call allies" window. Austria could simply have stated his intent before the war and made it a one on one affair. That I would have accepted. Your lack of diplomacy created this.
And frankly, I'm getting a bit tired of this trend. "Let's all keep quiet like little mice and hope everything turns out ok" seems to be the prevailing attitude.

Then the Evangelic Union joined the fray. You're going to be hard pressed to explain that one.

Had this been a Habsburg vs France/OE affair, it wouldn't have bothered me. This is really straining my goodwill to most everyone.

 

[Slargos]

Originally posted by Dild

And France joining forces with the turks -> BAD, you should be crusading against them, long live catholism

Heh.

Wallenstein and The Lion of the North fighting side by side during what should've been the largest religious war of all time?

If you're going to pull RP on me, you'd better have a leg to stand on.

 

[Hive]

Originally posted by Slargos
Had this been a Habsburg vs France/OE affair, it wouldn't have bothered me. This is really straining my goodwill to most everyone.

Of course it wouldn't have bothered you, because then you would have run right over them...

 

[Slargos]

Originally posted by arcorelli
Well, besides the fact that manpower calculations are not included in your comparation , the simple fact that if a France that conquered several italian provinces is in war with a Austria that lost several provinces that same session, can make other countries to think that France is not the weaker party

I deliberately left that one out because even though France has higher manpower, the weak economy left me unable to recruit more than a pittance of the pool.

The outcome of this war speaks volumes.

 

[Slargos]

Originally posted by Hive
Of course it wouldn't have bothered you, because then you would have run right over them...

Still. RP is out the window.

You can't just flaunt "Austria rightfully inherited Hungary" and then have the great heretic Gustav fight your battles in Austria.

Would it have been so hard for spain to actually participate instead of just sitting around?

 

[Hive]

Originally posted by Slargos
Still. RP is out the window.

You can't just flaunt "Austria rightfully inherited Hungary" and then have the great heretic Gustav fight your battles in Austria.

Would it have been so hard for spain to actually participate instead of just sitting around?

Spain isn't participating? Wtf...?

I see your point though Slarg. But it is in our interest to halt heathen expansion into Europe. Sure, Austria has a filthy and inferior religion - but they are still christians, nevertheless. They are the lesser of 2 evils...

 

[Hive]

Btw, the problem about the 30 Years war is that if we had to play it historically - Denmark, Sweden, Brandenburg, France against Austria and Spain - the Habsburgs would be crushed. And that wouldn't be good for the game, would it?

 

[unmerged(10915)]

Originally posted by Dild
yes, an austria that needed a lot of rebuilding, i am not even nearly as advanced as i should. And allthough up and running, still burdened by the former austrian player's actions.

Pray tell, what did the former austrian player do? Im always happy for pointers.

 

[Slargos]

Originally posted by Hive
Spain isn't participating? Wtf...?

I see your point though Slarg. But it is in our interest to halt heathen expansion into Europe. Sure, Austria has a filthy and inferior religion - but they are still christians, nevertheless. They are the lesser of 2 evils...

Again. WRONG.

The Turk supported the protestants against the imperials in the 30yw and obviously the protestants accepted his aid. Hence, the papists are a bigger threat than the turk.

STOP COMING UP WITH LAMEASS EXCUSES.

 

[Hive]

Originally posted by Slargos
STOP COMING UP WITH LAMEASS EXCUSES.

Stop whining! I never agreed to play 100% historically. But having said that, I would have loved to fight a 30 Years War against Austria. But doing so in the state Austria is in, they would get destroyed. And that ain't good for gameplay. Yes, I only entered this war for balance reasons. I just try to pep it up with some rp reasons (weak, but better than nothing). What would you have done?

 

[unmerged(8869)]

Originally posted by Slargos
No. Spain joined the war when Austria declared war. If Spain hadn't joined the war, it would have been a whole different deal.
When Spain pressed "accept", it turned into a big war.

Let me expand: You join the war when you press "accept" in the "call allies" window. Austria could simply have stated his intent before the war and made it a one on one affair. That I would have accepted. Your lack of diplomacy created this.
And frankly, I'm getting a bit tired of this trend. "Let's all keep quiet like little mice and hope everything turns out ok" seems to be the prevailing attitude.

Then the Evangelic Union joined the fray. You're going to be hard pressed to explain that one.

Had this been a Habsburg vs France/OE affair, it wouldn't have bothered me. This is really straining my goodwill to most everyone.

You are wrong on this one. And i am sure if you check history you can see it. I waited to press "accept" till i saw "France joined the war at side of..." message.
I am pretty sure of that since i waited few days before joining the war.

And, if you check history, you can see that even after Spain intervention (which was after french one) we said this could remain an OE vs Austria stuff.

For the North block joining the war, i am pretty sure that they asked France too to stay out of the war (and let that remain an OE vs austria) as condition for them to stay out before joining.

I am at work now but i am pretty sure of that. I agree with you that Austria could have talked more to France when it was obvious that OE wasn't going to accept Austrian claim. But this isn't the fault of Spain. We just got the request of allies to join the war, we saw france entering the war, and we entered as well.

To show the goodwill of Spain, and if France and allies of north alliance are fine with this, we are ready to mediate to bring this general (and expensive) conflict back to a limited war between Austria and OE.

 

[Hive]

Originally posted by KaiserGab
To show the goodwill of Spain, and if France and allies of north alliance are fine with this, we are ready to mediate to bring this general (and expensive) conflict back to a limited war between Austria and OE.

Brandenburg supports this.

 

[Slargos]

France has already declared its willingness to end this conflict. Until such a time that Austria negotiates peace with the Ottoman Empire, french armies will continue to keep vigil in Milan, and should the need arise, storm all the way to Vienna.

 

[unmerged(8869)]

Originally posted by Slargos
Still. RP is out the window.

You can't just flaunt "Austria rightfully inherited Hungary" and then have the great heretic Gustav fight your battles in Austria.

Would it have been so hard for spain to actually participate instead of just sitting around?

Spain is fighting. we have conquered a province in south france and besieging south italy. But since we were sure to keep that war as limited between OE and Austria, we weren't ready. We had most of the money spent in colonies.

Surely Heretics fighting side by side with austria is not very historical, but what about france entering in a formal alliance with the turks in 1600?

Btw, if there are any historical house rules then it's my fault. but i asked before joining if there were any house rule and you said no. Also, France conquered and annexed almost all italy. When Napoleon tried that in RL, Austria and friends formed tons of coalitions to finally take him down.

Lastly: i don't think i am playing spain unhistorically. Austria needs Spain as Spain needs Austria to counterbalance France, expecially if France is rules by you (we all saw how you kicked our ass in last AoD ).

 

[unmerged(8869)]

Originally posted by Slargos
France has already declared its willingness to end this conflict. Until such a time that Austria negotiates peace with the Ottoman Empire, french armies will continue to keep vigil in Milan, and should the need arise, storm all the way to Vienna.

Can France accept to remain neutral in the current war between OE and Austria? If France does, Spain (provided that our allies of Russia and north alliance are fine with that as well) remain neutral too. and we let Austria and OE resolve their disagreement alone.

There's no need for good christians to kill each other to protect some turks

 

[arcorelli]

Originally posted by Slargos
Again. WRONG.

The Turk supported the protestants against the imperials in the 30yw and obviously the protestants accepted his aid. Hence, the papists are a bigger threat than the turk.

STOP COMING UP WITH LAMEASS EXCUSES.

Yep. under historical conditions the papist were a bigger threat than the turk. Under the actual game conditions at the beginning of the XVII century, the evangelical union thought that this was not the case. It is not RP follow historical actions when the historical situation is not the same. Trying to uphold balance of power is not anti RP as far as I know (specially when we got a war that goes beyond an OE-Austrian one).

Simply, a France that controls all of Italy do not feel like the weaker party.

About the manpower issue, well how can we know about your economic situation? Your monthly income do not look particularly bad (it was round 135 in 1609 if I am not mistaken)