EU IV: Non-Developer Diary - Zaporozhian Sich

[nalivayko]

Welcome to another non-development diary for Europa Universalis IV. Today we focus on Zaporozhian Sich aka Sich Cossacks (as requested here)

Open for discussion and change, of course. I fully intend to make a mini-mod for Zaporozhian Sich once the game comes out. The ideas and missions are subject to change (need to tweak for balance against the neighboring PL, Muscowy and Ottomans). The idea is to make Cossacks fun to play, but not allow them to blob a-historically.

Cossack Possibilities

None. That is unless you start past 1552 when Zaporozhian Sich was established on the lower Dnieper's island of Hortitz by Dmitry Vyshnevetsky, first(?) Hetman of Ukrainian Cossacks/powerful Ruthenian magnate from Volhynia.

However, since 1552 is rather far away from the official start date, we could push the foundation date to 1489 - when, per Marcin Bielski (Polish historian/writer/poet), smaller Cossack fortifications could be found in the lower Dnieper lands.

Cossack Dynamic Historical Events

Unless raiding is a built-in game dynamic, there will be a chain representing Cossack raids of the Asia Minor and Cossack squabbles with Crimea.

In addition to that, Cossacks will get a chance to support and take lead in major uprisings were they to happen in neighboring Poland (and/or Lithuania, were to abandon One True Faith).

There will be no separate chain to represent Cossack demise. Its huge neighbors (Ottomans, Muscowy and Poland) should be able to take care of that on their own.

Missions and Decisions...

The Cossack missions are still mostly geared towards protecting Orthodox population of Ukraines (yes, plural, East Bank and West) and raiding its Muslim neighbors.

There will be a decision to form Ruthenia, if Cossacks are able to unify the Ruthenian lands under their leadership. This means a separate tag, but the same set of ideas.

There will be a decision to change government from the original elective (Sich Rada) to hereditary (Cossack Hetmanate).

Cossack National Ideas.

The Cossacks start with two traditions that should feel rather natural to anyone who played them in the previous versions of the game.

They get 25% extra manpower and 20% cheaper infantry. They are the same as Russian traditions. (open for discussion)

Alternative set: 25% extra manpower and +10% monthly morale recovery (we'll call that Orthodox Defenders or smth like it). Cossacks were famous for strategic retreats and ability to regroup quickly.

The 7 National Ideas for Zaporozhian Sich are (I tried to establish an optimal order, but some ideas may need to be moved around and/or renamed):

Where 'Bayrak', There 'Kozak' (or Winter Cossacks): 50% higher land force limit.
Escaped Serfs: 20% cheaper infantry, and 10% faster manpower recovery.
Steppe Warfare: 10% cavalry power, 10% cheaper cavalry
Chayka Raids: -25% galley cost
Gulyay-Gorod (or Meritocracy): +1 to leader fire
Cossack Glory: +1% army tradition/year
Ruthenian(? - could be Ukrainian) Nationalism: Hostile Core-Creation Cost on us +150% - mimicking Bohemian idea.

The reward for gaining all seven is +10% to discipline and 10% to infantry power.

EDIT: took off -25% land attrition from Steppe Warfare.
Replaced Orthodox Defenders w/Nationalism.

 

[unmerged(63836)]

Looks good. Perhaps tabor tactics could be abstracted by one of the NIs? Or would that be Gulyay-Gorod?

 

[nalivayko]

Looks good. Perhaps tabor tactics could be abstracted by one of the NIs? Or would that be Gulyay-Gorod?

That's the one. Tabor Tactics sound so... Czech?

 

[Alley]

Base start is strong(like russian) doesn't quite fit the smaller nation factor, so to make it even 10% cheaper infantry instead.

also you have all the strong bonusses at the start, look at the way the developers develop the nations you see they are spread from start to finish sometimes even having strange setups like cheaper tech at position 7.

these were the first 3 they should be 1,4 and 7. rather than 1,2,3.
Where 'Bayrak', There 'Kozak' (or Winter Cossacks): 50% higher land force limit.
Escaped Serfs: 20% cheaper infantry, and 10% faster manpower recovery.
Steppe Warfare: 10% cavalry power, 10% cheaper cavalry, -25% land attrition

also Steppe Warfare, has too much, take off the -25% land attrition as the 50% higher land force limit is already a nice special setting and you have the mix of both increased infantry and cavalry strength for this nation where most nations are geared towards just 1. For Russia it's the infantry(land). So the dual setting is already their speciality.

Those 3 adjustments would make this in line with other nations.

 

[Alley]

1 more thing, as this nation is, like/near hordes, could do something with cores, like
replace: Cossack Glory: +1% army tradition/year
with: Cossack expansion: +25% cheaper core creation

edit: (p.s. I'm suggesting this since at the moment 6/7 your idea's "stack" they are all combat based.) You need some diversification. Just the last idea CB's isn't, but you havn't made a final idea there yet anyway.

 

[nalivayko]

1 more thing, as this nation is, like/near hordes, could do something with cores, like
replace: Cossack Glory: +1% army tradition/year
with: Cossack expansion: +25% cheaper core creation

edit: (p.s. I'm suggesting this since at the moment 6/7 your idea's "stack" they are all combat based.) You need some diversification. Just the last idea CB's isn't, but you havn't made a final idea there yet anyway.

I do agree with diversification, but the fact is that Zaporozhian Sich was very militant in nature. It should be treated like a horde in some respect. Being a military order of sorts, army tradition is a must, and it's history doesn't support cheaper core creation as it stayed more or less within the same area (Ukrainian lands were gained through "liberation", not conquest).

Base start - yes, it's Russia-strong, but that was one thing that always bothered me when playing Zaporozhian Sich. This small nation historically fielded rather large armies and, as OPM, it couldn't do so in-game. Thus, manpower boost. Cheaper infantry can go, of course, although it does seem historically correct. I would be more inclined to decrease bonuses from a couple of national ideas to balance it out.

The order suggestions are good, will wait to hear other opinions and re-order. Myself, I tried to keep them in more or less historic order.

Thus, first comes establishment of the Sich, the come the refugees, light cavalry begins patrols against Crimean raids, followed by the sea ventures. More organized types of warfare follow (gulyay-gorod), Cossack reputation is established (Cossack Glory - Cossacks beginning to serving as mercenaries abroad). Orthodox Defenders is the odd one. It could be a starting tradition instead and replaced with some non-military bonus. Suggestions welcome.

Taking land attrition off from Steppe warfare. It does seem unnecessary after some thinking.

 

[burny26]

Very nice!
Would you mind if i copy paste your ideas onto my thread next to all other NI for other countries?

 

[nalivayko]

Very nice!
Would you mind if i copy paste your ideas onto my thread next to all other NI for other countries?

Of course They are subject to change though. You probably should add a link to your thread in your signature. Just an idea.

Updating Orthodox Defenders to Ruthenian Nationalism a la Czech Nationalism.

 

[burny26]

Alright! could you post the ideas otherwise in the thread when you consider them finished?

 

[nalivayko]

Alright! could you post the ideas otherwise in the thread when you consider them finished?

With pleasure

 

[unmerged(416135)]

The Mamelukes don't get a naval idea, even though they raided like the Cossacks.

Myself I think the Cossacks were more famous for their egalitarian system than anything else. The Cossack Code and their judicial system was unprecedented in that era in Europe, and nothing like it would come until the independence of the United States. Your meritocracy for officers is a fair point, though (although reducing leader cost may be another way of achieving this). The Golden Cathedral could be a religious idea

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Michael's_Golden-Domed_Cathedral

As well, Zaporozhye Sich was well noted for its' education

Kyiv-Mohyla Academy played a very important role in obtaining from Western Europe the knowelege of the Renaissance and adopting it by Ukraine and Russia.[10][11] The Kyiv-Mohyla Academy also supported a number of other colleges built on its model, such as the Vasilian College in Moldova (Moldavia).

Hetmans – military leaders of the Zaporozhian Cossacks – were close to the monarch and actively supported the Kyiv-Mohyla Academy.[14] The school flourished under the term of Hetman Ivan Mazepa, an alumnus.

Visitors from abroad commented on the high level of literacy, even among commoners, in the Hetmanate. There was a higher number of elementary schools per population in the Hetmanate than in either neighboring Muscovy or Poland. In the 1740s, of 1,099 settlements within seven regimental districts, as many as 866 had primary schools.[6] The German vistitor to the Hetmanate, writing in 1720, commented on how the son of Hetman Danylo Apostol, who had never left Ukraine, was fluent in the Latin, Italian, French, German, Polish and Russian languages [7] Under Mazepa, the Kiev collegium was transformed into an Academy and attracted some of the leading scholars of the Orthodox world.[8] It was the largest educational institution in lands ruled by Moscow.[9] Mazepa established another Collegium in Chernihiv. These schools largely used the Polish and Latin languages and provided a classic western education to their students.[9] Many of those trained in Kiev, such as Feofan Prokopovich would later move to Moscow, so that Ivan Mazepa's patronage not only raised the level of culture in Ukraine but also in Moscow itself.[8] A musical academy was established in 1737 in the Hetmanate's then-capital of Hlukhiv. Among its graduates were Maksym Berezovsky, the first composer from the Russian Empire to be recognized in Europe, and Dmitry Bortniansky.

In addition to traditional printing presses in Kiev, new printing shops were established in Novhorod-Siverskyi and Chernihiv. Most of the books published were religious in nature, such as the Peternik, a book about the lives of the monks of the Kiev-Pechersk monasatary. Books on local history were compiled. In a book written by Inokentiy Gizel in 1674, the theory that Moscow was the heir of ancient Kiev was developed and elaborated for the first time [10]

The Cossacks should get huge force limit and manpower and manpower recovery bonuses, but that is it. Historically, their armies were a large rabble. In fact, their armies were the largest in Europe as seen during the Battle of Berestechko (100,000 soldiers from the Cossacks, even though they only controlled a small area).

Obviously the Cossacks also had some of the best military organization back then (I think they were among the first in Europe to introduce the idea of a regiment and expand it to a large scale).

Yes there was a core of Cossacks were that very skilled and elite and they decimated over 10,000 of the Commonwealth's best soldiers in the initial battles of the Uprising. . however, the Cossack Uprising ultimately came down to the regular Polish army vs the Regular Zaporozhian Army (which was largely cannon fodder peasants, compared to the better equipped and better trained Polish line) and that is why they lost.


The best way to represent the best Cossacks would be a free mercenary unit for whoever controls the province of Zaporozhie and this should be one of the best mercenary units in the game (historically, even during the Napoleonic Wars the Cossacks were feared).

1 Cossack Mercenary in Zaporozhie and 1 more in the Don Province would make the most sense.