I've never seen so many people actually interested and passionate in discussing history and the benefits of one country over another that wasn't their REAL country of origin! Its great to see Poland for example being discussed and argued over by non-Poles! Here in Australia, almost no one seems to even know where Poland is, and if they do they think its some kind of third world hole without television(as my girfriends mother thought)!
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Indeed, often the best discussions on this forum are about countries that no longer exist! It's a beauty!
Heh, your g/f's mother is about as intelligent as a piece of asparagus. No insult intended.. 
It's time to destroy old beliefs and ideas which have ingrained themselves in many history books in the last 20+ years.
Sapura
[This message has been edited by Sapura (edited 30-01-2001).]
It's time to destroy old beliefs and ideas which have ingrained themselves in many history books in the last 20+ years.
Sapura
[This message has been edited by Sapura (edited 30-01-2001).]
Perhaps they should play this game in American schools, where about 90% of the Americans cannot tell where Canada is on a world map?????
Errr. On the other hand, they might think that something like the 'terra incognita' really exists then. Perhaps not such a good idea...
Hi Sapura, I do not know all the countries in the world that exist. How can I expect from someone in Australia that she knows all European countries? We should not be so eurocentric. Morover some provinces of Australia are bigger than Poland. I do not know all of them. Do you?
No doubt this game is a good tool to teach children or adults even about things they wouldn't have believed before.
Might be a tad too difficult for the younger crowd, but with patches continually being created, and alternative grand campaigns being tweaked by consumers, I'm pretty sure this game will go a long way in changing some of those old and silly ideas that some people may still believe. The beta team overcame the same sorts of old 'beliefs' on their way to tweaking the game, so did I in fact (in some respects). So I'm sure it'll be just the same with other people too.
If a kid doesn't want to read a history book then he might play a game such as this and learn it this way. Another good selling point for Paradox *it educates the kiddies!*
Sapura
Might be a tad too difficult for the younger crowd, but with patches continually being created, and alternative grand campaigns being tweaked by consumers, I'm pretty sure this game will go a long way in changing some of those old and silly ideas that some people may still believe. The beta team overcame the same sorts of old 'beliefs' on their way to tweaking the game, so did I in fact (in some respects). So I'm sure it'll be just the same with other people too.
If a kid doesn't want to read a history book then he might play a game such as this and learn it this way. Another good selling point for Paradox *it educates the kiddies!*
Sapura
You can tell your girlfriends mom that Poland is a place with great beer, nice people, and above all GORGEOUS WOMEN. And I'm from Sweden, mind you! I'm spoiled!
I agree that it is fun that people are debating so much!
I agree that it is fun that people are debating so much!
Peter,
to answer your questions
a) yes I do know all the provinces in Australia.
b) 'if they do they think its some kind of third world hole without television(as my girfriends mother thought)! '
His comment was NOT that she did not know that Poland existed, but that she thought it was some 'third world hole without television'. If someone walked up to me in Australia and said the same thing with a straight face on, I'd be pretty bloody insulted. Never mind being eurocentric, its a matter of acting responsibly and with manners.
So, eh?
Sapura
[This message has been edited by Sapura (edited 30-01-2001).]
to answer your questions
a) yes I do know all the provinces in Australia.
b) 'if they do they think its some kind of third world hole without television(as my girfriends mother thought)! '
His comment was NOT that she did not know that Poland existed, but that she thought it was some 'third world hole without television'. If someone walked up to me in Australia and said the same thing with a straight face on, I'd be pretty bloody insulted. Never mind being eurocentric, its a matter of acting responsibly and with manners.
So, eh?
Sapura
[This message has been edited by Sapura (edited 30-01-2001).]
Peter: It is about history, and sadly, European history shaped the world as it is- more than any other history (even in counties like China and Japan there is a strong influence from the 'west', more than the other way around).
And, the game could be really made more educational, perhaps a GC as a demo which resembles the REAL history (1492-1792)! There are some people would get their demo that way, and it would be educational, AND it could include some additional info on the history. (wow, I REALLY like that idea, may I programn it???)
BTW- The demo could then, whenever something happens, go to the spot WHERE it happens, and show it (Columbus discovers America, returns home, the British fleet defeats the Armada and so on!!!!)
...Just posted that as a new thread...
[This message has been edited by daboese (edited 30-01-2001).]
And, the game could be really made more educational, perhaps a GC as a demo which resembles the REAL history (1492-1792)! There are some people would get their demo that way, and it would be educational, AND it could include some additional info on the history. (wow, I REALLY like that idea, may I programn it???)
BTW- The demo could then, whenever something happens, go to the spot WHERE it happens, and show it (Columbus discovers America, returns home, the British fleet defeats the Armada and so on!!!!)
...Just posted that as a new thread...
[This message has been edited by daboese (edited 30-01-2001).]
Hi Sapura, the mother said 'third world'. As I remember the meaning of 'third world' was that it neither belonged to the American or Soviet bloc. The mother just made a mistake. Or should Indians or Jugoslawians have been insulted when they were called 'third world'? As for TV I wish we had no TV in Germany. I have 2 children.
Originally posted by daboese:
Perhaps they should play this game in American schools, where about 90% of the Americans cannot tell where Canada is on a world map?????
A bit of a cheap shot, don't you think?
Come on now - don't make me have to come over there!
We in this forum are interested in history. Because of this we also know something about geography. But we should not be arrogant towards people who do not share our interests and know less in these areas. Maybe they know things we don't. Except Sapura of course. He seems to know everything.
Peter,
Nevertheless, if you don't KNOW SOMETHING concrete about a country (or anything else for that matter, a person, a religion, whatever it might be), DONT SAY ANYTHING AT ALL.
It's like that saying 'when you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all'
Third world - definition of is basically a country or an area which is piss poor, disorganized, perhaps war ravaged and technlogically backwards as well as educationally.
Also, there's no need to be sarcastic, if you want to use those kinds of methods on some one, use it on a chimp. Additionally, don't give me that 'holier than tho' routine. I'm more open to other people than a lot of people are, I am rarely arrogant as well. I never said I knew 'everything', mate, but what I do know I pass on as freely as I can.
Besides which, how about you ease off? My earlier statement was merely a joke a cheap shot at a fellow Pole. You do realise what this '' means in internet netiquette?
Sapura
[This message has been edited by Sapura (edited 30-01-2001).]
Nevertheless, if you don't KNOW SOMETHING concrete about a country (or anything else for that matter, a person, a religion, whatever it might be), DONT SAY ANYTHING AT ALL.
It's like that saying 'when you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all'
Third world - definition of is basically a country or an area which is piss poor, disorganized, perhaps war ravaged and technlogically backwards as well as educationally.
Also, there's no need to be sarcastic, if you want to use those kinds of methods on some one, use it on a chimp. Additionally, don't give me that 'holier than tho' routine. I'm more open to other people than a lot of people are, I am rarely arrogant as well. I never said I knew 'everything', mate, but what I do know I pass on as freely as I can.
Besides which, how about you ease off? My earlier statement was merely a joke a cheap shot at a fellow Pole. You do realise what this '
' means in internet netiquette? Sapura
[This message has been edited by Sapura (edited 30-01-2001).]
Hey,
a) I lived for more than two years in the US.
b) I REALLY read this in a survey. - in some American schoolbooks the equator is even going through the South of the US!
It is not meant as an offense, but even most Americans I know admit that history and geography in school is mainly concentrated on the US (I wouldn't be able to get all 51 States together with their capitals for example)...
Anyway, I think it might be educational for anyone, and teachers (my mother eg is one) are always searching for different, new approaches to get the attention of the kids.
a) I lived for more than two years in the US.
b) I REALLY read this in a survey.
- in some American schoolbooks the equator is even going through the South of the US!It is not meant as an offense, but even most Americans I know admit that history and geography in school is mainly concentrated on the US (I wouldn't be able to get all 51 States together with their capitals for example)...
Anyway, I think it might be educational for anyone, and teachers (my mother eg is one) are always searching for different, new approaches to get the attention of the kids.
Daboese,
I don't want to make a big deal out of this. And no offense is meant to you.
I'm sure I could find interesting tid bits of info to talk trash on British kids and adults too. Or any other nation for that matter. But common sense tells me not to stereotype and such.
It kind of happens all the time to Americans on the forum - tired of it. You'd think intelligent people would know better by now.
Maybe we could trash Spanish kids? Or how about the Poles - they've been mentioned here. They might be fun to kick around for a while.
I'd be willing to discuss textbooks with you, but not with the premise that people are stupid.
And you do have a good point. The game could be a good tool for educating kids. From previous discussions about this stuff, and according to what people in different countries have said, it seems that the children of all countries need to be educated better.
And that's 50 states. But I don't think you or all of England is stupid for missing that.
I don't want to make a big deal out of this. And no offense is meant to you.
I'm sure I could find interesting tid bits of info to talk trash on British kids and adults too. Or any other nation for that matter. But common sense tells me not to stereotype and such.
It kind of happens all the time to Americans on the forum - tired of it. You'd think intelligent people would know better by now.
Maybe we could trash Spanish kids? Or how about the Poles - they've been mentioned here. They might be fun to kick around for a while.
I'd be willing to discuss textbooks with you, but not with the premise that people are stupid.
And you do have a good point. The game could be a good tool for educating kids. From previous discussions about this stuff, and according to what people in different countries have said, it seems that the children of all countries need to be educated better.
And that's 50 states. But I don't think you or all of England is stupid for missing that.
Ok, I received my basic education in Polish school under a communist regime. I finished 8 years of school there before I moved to US. I had Geography class 3 years, 1 or 2h per week. One year European Geo, one year World geo and one year Poland Geo. After this education I know Every country in Europe, north and south America, most of Asia and Oceanic, some of Africa. I had to know capitols of each European country and most of Asian and American. My teacher even expected us to know from memory what countries border what without a map. We had to know population of all Europeans countries and we had to know all large rivers in the world ( knowing in what countries they run). That knowledge is very helpful to me now. I can talk to people from other countries and not be a stupid ass. Also, people like you better from the start if you know something about their country. I live in US now, I finished High School and Collage here. I do not know how education system can justify having cooking class where most of population dose not know anything about the rest of the world. If you American don't get upset, I do not put US down I just don't understand.
KRonn, I'm not really too much into any stereotypes or prejudices, don't take me wrong. But as someone who is interested in American Politics you know that the educational system in America could and should be better (as it could and should be in Europe, no doubt). However, one of the few stereotypes I am still into is that a lot of Americans (by far not all) are only interested in what happens to them and directly around them. I am not doubting the intellectual ability of the American 'Elite' at all (which you probably belong to as well).
As a European, however you usually HAVE to be interested into other nations, simply because your own nation is relatively small, and it IS dependent on others ( the political style of isolating the country would not be POSSIBLE in Europe!). Point taken?
As a European, however you usually HAVE to be interested into other nations, simply because your own nation is relatively small, and it IS dependent on others ( the political style of isolating the country would not be POSSIBLE in Europe!). Point taken?
To continue on the same topic as the Pomerania Prince: I only have one years worth of experience of US highschools, but I got the impression that you can get through it with minimal knowledge of anything. There were lots of relatively advanced classes in math, physics, etc., but a lot of kids thought along the lines of 'why sweat those, when you can take Home Ed, Guitar lessons, Driving lessons, P.E., etc.?' Some of these kids are smart, but this is the group where you can also find the real ignoramuses.
Hi Sapura, iff we all ease off that is fine. I want to go to the topic of this thread. Since my son and some of his frieds are playing EU they ask a lot of questions about history that they would not have asked otherwise. I am also looking in history books to read something about some aspects that are modeled in EU. EU is really an educational game. Moreover children (and also adults) learn to manage a complex system (your nation in an hostile environment) and that fighting is not everything. Paradox really did a great job.