Doomdark, i called you professer because i was thinking you probally got that one thingy (is Doctered how you spell it...?) from all this history knowledge, i didnt mean to offend you
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It is funny to see English-speaking people struggling with Spanish, when over here in Spain it is usually Spanish-speaking people struggling with English! Perhaps we should all go back on Latin...
Good luck with your course, Al. If you need help, I will be more than willing to help.
Kind regards, as always.
Martin
Martin......yes you are exactly right about The ottomans being one of the primary motivators of the Age of Exploration. Prior to the conquest of Constantinople the Europeans had several trade routes to work with.
Black Sea route that passed through either Constantinople or went up the Danube. Alexandria and Sidon (if I remember correctly) All three of these where dominated by the Veniceans during their hey day. Veniceans did not have a problem dealing with the Moslems in fact they were just about the only Christian nation who got along with the Moslem nations of the middle east. Veniceans were driven by greed not religion, maybe rightfully so considering everyone hated them because they had lots of money and no one could conquer them (they had a nasty habit of retreating to their island and thumbing their nose at their enemies). As the game time approaches I think the Spanish and Genoans had made inroads into Alexandria and the Veniceans were in the process of losing the Constantinople trade route (the Ottomans allowed trade with the Veniceans from time to time even after they took Constantinople).
Hope that wasn't too much information.
Dean
Black Sea route that passed through either Constantinople or went up the Danube. Alexandria and Sidon (if I remember correctly) All three of these where dominated by the Veniceans during their hey day. Veniceans did not have a problem dealing with the Moslems in fact they were just about the only Christian nation who got along with the Moslem nations of the middle east. Veniceans were driven by greed not religion, maybe rightfully so considering everyone hated them because they had lots of money and no one could conquer them (they had a nasty habit of retreating to their island and thumbing their nose at their enemies). As the game time approaches I think the Spanish and Genoans had made inroads into Alexandria and the Veniceans were in the process of losing the Constantinople trade route (the Ottomans allowed trade with the Veniceans from time to time even after they took Constantinople).
Hope that wasn't too much information.
Dean
EU is a user friendly computerised version of a VERY difficult boardgame. Not all the features of the boardgame are included (has any tester got money from looting?), and some new features have been added (the technology tree). It's difficult to compare it with other strategy games because Civ 2, Imp 1/2 , Seven Kingdoms 2 etc. come from more or less original ideas and EU is based on a boardgame. I think we should judge it on this basis. It could make good (but a bit lengthy one I guess) multiplayer games, that's for sure. And you must take into account that games that belong in this category ( strategy games with economy, diplomacy, colonization, etc) are usually turned-based.
I'm new to this board and EU. Look VERY interesting.
I think what makes Shogun pretty unique is the combination of a turn-based strategic overlay on top of a real-time battle segment.
The strategic part is pretty thin but is substantially more complex and realistic than in the average RTS, and is turn based. The battle segment is very good, and is 'pausable real time'. The strategic segment does extremely well in tying together the whole game and making the battles have valid reasons for occuring. What you do or don't do the strategic portion has direct bearing on your ability to successfully fight the battles.
In my judgement, the number of posts at totalwar.org related to making Shogun's strategic portion more complex is much larger than the number of posts wanting the battle portion to be more complex. Perhaps the developers will respond. They did take some strategic things out for the final release apparently thinking too many people would find them too complex. Perhaps so, but the energy overall is for more complexity as I said.
They have announced a sequel, too, and since Shogun is selling so well, it might even happen. This announcement was prior to release of the game and was for a Roman game. There have been no subsequent announcements and the developers, when asked, have been very non-committal.
This leads me to a question: how does EU do battles? Are these computer resolved and the player merely sees the result?
That is my impression, and if there is a thread lower than 20 days of threads that answers my question, I'm sorry for the duplication. Just direct me there and I'll read it. After playing Shogun, I think I'd miss the battles although I'd look forward to the history and strategic complexity of EU.
I think what makes Shogun pretty unique is the combination of a turn-based strategic overlay on top of a real-time battle segment.
The strategic part is pretty thin but is substantially more complex and realistic than in the average RTS, and is turn based. The battle segment is very good, and is 'pausable real time'. The strategic segment does extremely well in tying together the whole game and making the battles have valid reasons for occuring. What you do or don't do the strategic portion has direct bearing on your ability to successfully fight the battles.
In my judgement, the number of posts at totalwar.org related to making Shogun's strategic portion more complex is much larger than the number of posts wanting the battle portion to be more complex. Perhaps the developers will respond. They did take some strategic things out for the final release apparently thinking too many people would find them too complex. Perhaps so, but the energy overall is for more complexity as I said.
They have announced a sequel, too, and since Shogun is selling so well, it might even happen. This announcement was prior to release of the game and was for a Roman game. There have been no subsequent announcements and the developers, when asked, have been very non-committal.
This leads me to a question: how does EU do battles? Are these computer resolved and the player merely sees the result?
That is my impression, and if there is a thread lower than 20 days of threads that answers my question, I'm sorry for the duplication. Just direct me there and I'll read it. After playing Shogun, I think I'd miss the battles although I'd look forward to the history and strategic complexity of EU.
The combat in EU is resolved automatically, which means that the only thing you do is to stand aside and watch the developing battle. Of course you can always retreat if you see that the your chance for victory is reducing. I think this is better because the game is quite complex already.
Hey Greven, thanks for theinfo, once again. Good to know theyve tried to do diplomacy right. Granted, your never going to get anything like the experience of playing something like diplomacy in a pc game but it does kinda play a central role in the period. Will await keenly! You should check out MOO2 BTW. Itll be in the bargain bins for a tenner if that I would think - I got my copy for 12.99 a couple of years ago. Always thought it was the only space 4x that came anywhere close to civ.
cheers again,
Al
ps, Martin, youll be glad to know that I passed. thanks for the offer anyway though! May take you up on it when I go on to level 2 in october
cheers again,
Al
ps, Martin, youll be glad to know that I passed. thanks for the offer anyway though! May take you up on it when I go on to level 2 in october
Originally posted by qwertyuiop on 07-04-2000 08:49 PM
ps, Martin, youll be glad to know that I passed. thanks for the offer anyway though! May take you up on it when I go on to level 2 in october
Aha! Congratulations! Or should I say Felicidades? In any case, well done! Of course, you can still count on me for any help you might need in October or anytime.
Martin
Ohh Guys !!
I didn't say that it _will_ be released in october. Just that october is the middle of Q4 2000.
I just wanted to say it so you will not witchhunt me for lying.
/Greven
I didn't say that it _will_ be released in october. Just that october is the middle of Q4 2000.
I just wanted to say it so you will not witchhunt me for lying.
/Greven
What a mischievious, cunning and deceptive, Pope you are, Greven lord!
Not unlike your historic counterparts.. hey, does that prove you're aar not ahistoric?
Sapura
Not unlike your historic counterparts.. hey, does that prove you're aar not ahistoric?
Sapura
Originally posted by Sapura on 07-07-2000 05:38 AM
What a mischievious, cunning and deceptive, Pope you are, Greven lord!
Not unlike your historic counterparts.. hey, does that prove you're aar not ahistoric?
Sapura
'The causes of effects proves the Greatness of Man, which has been able to create such a Beautiful Order by the power of his craving heart.'
/Greven
Greven
october? If thats related to Martin and my comments, dont worry - we were talking about spnish clases
However.... (theres always a but) If youve got any inside line on release dates...?!? Im all geared up with a new PC, raring to go but is it my imagination or have studios backed off from hist turn based strat? I mean, I remember about a year ago I was tryintg to decide between CTP, Imp2 and test of time. Felt swamped and SMAC had come out to keep me happy in the mean time! It seems nothings come out in over a year. EU may be our last best hope.... Lets hope itsnot delayed... If youve heard anything definte, dont keep it to yourself!
Best
Al
october? If thats related to Martin and my comments, dont worry - we were talking about spnish clases
However.... (theres always a but) If youve got any inside line on release dates...?!? Im all geared up with a new PC, raring to go but is it my imagination or have studios backed off from hist turn based strat? I mean, I remember about a year ago I was tryintg to decide between CTP, Imp2 and test of time. Felt swamped and SMAC had come out to keep me happy in the mean time! It seems nothings come out in over a year. EU may be our last best hope.... Lets hope itsnot delayed... If youve heard anything definte, dont keep it to yourself!
Best
Al
Greven,
'Just that october is the middle of Q4 2000'
Actually it's not, Q4 would be Oct-Nov-Dec, making November the middle month.
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'He who thinks great thoughts often makes great errors' - Martin Heidegger
'Just that october is the middle of Q4 2000'
Actually it's not, Q4 would be Oct-Nov-Dec, making November the middle month.
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'He who thinks great thoughts often makes great errors' - Martin Heidegger
Oh God !! I have done it again !
My girlfriend use to laugh at me when I can't keep track on what day it is.
If I were a muslim I could have had two.
/Greven
I haven't played all other games mentionned in this thread, but I play simultaneously Civ CTP and EU.
Well, they are both excellent but quite different. Actually, you can spend as many nights developing your Civilization as struggling as Russia to get rid of those darn Swedes and Poles, while trying to reach the Pacific through Siberia and keeping the Turks calm and ...
You understand it, EU is very rich and complex, so much indeed that the most useful key is certainly the 'Pause' key!
As for game mechanisms, as Greven said, everyone is a different player and likes/dislikes some features.
Military : OK
Economy : OK but needs a lot of time to follow (micromanaging the trade was painful before some automatization was introduced)
Diplomacy : Ok but still some flaw in the AI and some options are still missing.
Technology : OK (progress somewhat too quick)
Province Improvement : a bit poor (4 types of 'factories', 2 military, 3 political improvements)
AI : getting quite good actually
Game feeling : Great! Leaders, Monarchs, Events, missions: all you need is here.
Fun factor: Great (just cannot stop thinking of my next move against Sweden tonight)
Well, they are both excellent but quite different. Actually, you can spend as many nights developing your Civilization as struggling as Russia to get rid of those darn Swedes and Poles, while trying to reach the Pacific through Siberia and keeping the Turks calm and ...
You understand it, EU is very rich and complex, so much indeed that the most useful key is certainly the 'Pause' key!
As for game mechanisms, as Greven said, everyone is a different player and likes/dislikes some features.
Military : OK
Economy : OK but needs a lot of time to follow (micromanaging the trade was painful before some automatization was introduced)
Diplomacy : Ok but still some flaw in the AI and some options are still missing.
Technology : OK (progress somewhat too quick)
Province Improvement : a bit poor (4 types of 'factories', 2 military, 3 political improvements)
AI : getting quite good actually
Game feeling : Great! Leaders, Monarchs, Events, missions: all you need is here.
Fun factor: Great (just cannot stop thinking of my next move against Sweden tonight)