Introduction
I think ethics in Stellaris 2 (and might be in this one, but highly unlikely) should work like in Humankind.
I remember at the begining of Stellaris (might be I remember wrongly) you were able to do anything but if your did something against your ethics you would recive a hapiness penalty. Then they changed it to lock certain things if you were a certain type of ethic. For example slavery used to give a lot of discontent if your ethics were egalitarian, but you stil were able to select it. Again, I might be remembering incorrectly.
I think the locking of certain thing depending on your ethics is okay but perhaps a little bit unrealistic, it is working in reverse. Your actions determine if you are egalitarian or not, not otherwise. Forbiding slavery makes you egalitarian, enslaving someone makes you an authoritarian. That's how reality work, not viceversa.
So, ehtics should be a consequence of your actions.
If most of your pops are already authoritarian, and you as the player want to have slaves but your empire is egalitarian. Then who is forbiding you, the zeitgeist of your empire, to have slaves? Your people already want it, the government (you) already wants it. The game is forbiding it. Of course, you are able to embrace Authority, but this is an extra step that doesn't feel right.
Ethic Axis
I suggest to have a system like Humankind. You have certain axis:
Equality <--> Hierarchy
Authority <--> Liberty
Environmentalism <--> Industrialism
Xenophilia <--> Xenophobia
Pacifism <--> Militarism
Spiritualism <--> Materialism
Ethic Levels
Each axis has 10 levels (5 and 5). In the ethics selection screen at the beggining of the game they will give you, lets say 7 points, each points fills one level. For example:
Equality [ ] [ ] [●] [●] [●] | [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] Hierarchy
Authority [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] | [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] Liberty
Xenophilia [ ] [ ] [ ] [●] [●] | [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] Xenophobia
Militarism [ ] [ ] [ ] [●] [●] | [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] Pacifism
Environmentalism [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] | [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] Industrialism
Materialism [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] | [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] Spiritualism
If you completely fill 1 axis you will be considered fanatic.
At the beggining you have enough points (5 + 2 or 5 + 1 + 1) to be fanatic in 1 axis right from the start. Each fanatic axis will have one extra very special bonus.
Each level will give you the same stacked bonus. For example:
Militarist: -4% Claim influence cost, +4% Ship fire rate, +5% Empire sprawl from pops, -2 Stability per level.
Fanatic Militarist (Level 5): -20% Claim influence cost, +20% Ship fire rate, +25% Empire sprawl from pops, -10 Stability, plus some special bonus.
Pacifist: Each level of pacifist: +4% Claim influence cost, -4% Ship fire rate, -5% Empire sprawl from pops, +2 Stability per level.
Fanatic Pacifist: +20% Claim influence cost, -20% Ship fire rate, -25% Empire sprawl from pops, +10 Stability, plus some special bonus.
You could also have levels on many ethical axis, not just 2 or 3, that's why every level gives also a penalty, for balance and the bonuses must be rather small.
All features would be unlocked and would gve you points towards certain ethics depending if you choose them or or not. For example, selecting slavery allowed policy would give you 2 points towards Authoritarian.
You will lose or win levels of a certain axis through your actions, policies, edicts, civics, pops (robot percentage of population determines how many points towards materialism, xenos percentage of population determine how many points towards xenophile) etc. But these policies, edicts, etc will not be locked by your ethics, on the contrary, they will define your ethics and the bonus you will get from your ethic level.
A level 5 fanatic pacifist may still declare conquest wars, however doing so will make him gain 3 points toward militaristic and descend to level 2 pacifist. Maybe specific actions will give you temporary points but structural reforms will give permanent points. So you might gain again the 3 points towards pacifist after 20 years if yu don't declare any other war. Liberation or ideology wars could cost 1 point towards militaristic instead. If you keep declaring conquest wars, you will keep those 3 points towards militaristic reseting their timers (so no stacking).
If you get more than 5 points, lets say 8, on a certain axis, lets say militarist, you would still be level 5 fanatic militarist, but would have 4 oportunities to do recevive pacifist points before you fall to level 4. So, you can have more than 5 points on a certain axis but be at most level 5.
Also you can only be level 5 in one axis, if you have to axes with more than 4 points, you will get the fanatic of the one with the most points. For example, you have 7 points towards Materialist and 5 towards Xenophobe, you would be Level 5 Fanatic Materialist (with 2 extra points) and Level 4 Xenophobe (with 1 extra point).
Xenophilia [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] | [●] [●] [●] [●] [ ] Xenophobia (+1)
Materialism (+2) [●] [●] [●] [●] [●] | [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] Spiritualism
Civics
For civics that require certain ethics like fanatic purifier: You will need 5 points in xenophobe to keep the civic, if you fall down the threshold you will loose the civic (I know, there would not be permanent civics with this system) and must choose another one.
So, most civics would give you points toward a certain axis (Police state: +3 Levels towards Authoritarian), but some civics would require a specific level to be unlocked (Fanatic purifier: Requires 5 Xenophobe levels). That would be the only locked features.
Hapiness and Opinion
The level of base faction and pop hapiness will be proportional to your level in that axis. So the militarist faction and pops in a level 4 pacifist empire will be 10% Happy. This would be an easier way to manage faction happiness than the current system.
Other empires opinion would work similarly. A level 3 Pacifist empire would have -50 Opinion on a level 2 Militarist empire and +80 Opinion on a level 5 Pacifist empire.
Same axis side: 100 - Difference (x10)
Opposite axis side: 0 - Difference (x10)
Gestalt Consciousness
This system could also be applied to organic gestalt consciusness because is more of a personality descriptor of your empire or gestalt consciusness rather than a feature blocker/enabler. A higly militaristic hive (Militarist), a contemplative hive (Spiritualist) or a Curious one (Materialistic). The only ones without ethics would be the machine empires.
There could even be special axes for Hiveminds that would determine what are they up to, and the bonuses they get. For example:
Breeding <--> Feeding
Startled <--> Docile
etc.
Breeding: Growth bonus
Feeding: Production bonus
Startled: Military bonus
Docile: Stability bonus
Imagine having a Hivemind near your empire that is Breeding and Docile, but then you click on it again and you see that it has changed to Feeding and Startled. You would know that a very angry swarm is about to come out of that part of space.
Conclusion
I know this is not what the devs intended the game to be, there are 2 aproaches always to these kind of games. The sandboxy aproach and the on rails aproach. I think both are great and i like both of them. I just feel that this game would work better with the sandboxy aproach as oposed to a historic game for example. So if the devs change their minds, they should consider this way of doing the ethics.
If you liked this suggestion please upvote it so it doesn't get ignored.
I think ethics in Stellaris 2 (and might be in this one, but highly unlikely) should work like in Humankind.
I remember at the begining of Stellaris (might be I remember wrongly) you were able to do anything but if your did something against your ethics you would recive a hapiness penalty. Then they changed it to lock certain things if you were a certain type of ethic. For example slavery used to give a lot of discontent if your ethics were egalitarian, but you stil were able to select it. Again, I might be remembering incorrectly.
I think the locking of certain thing depending on your ethics is okay but perhaps a little bit unrealistic, it is working in reverse. Your actions determine if you are egalitarian or not, not otherwise. Forbiding slavery makes you egalitarian, enslaving someone makes you an authoritarian. That's how reality work, not viceversa.
So, ehtics should be a consequence of your actions.
If most of your pops are already authoritarian, and you as the player want to have slaves but your empire is egalitarian. Then who is forbiding you, the zeitgeist of your empire, to have slaves? Your people already want it, the government (you) already wants it. The game is forbiding it. Of course, you are able to embrace Authority, but this is an extra step that doesn't feel right.
Ethic Axis
I suggest to have a system like Humankind. You have certain axis:
Equality <--> Hierarchy
Authority <--> Liberty
Environmentalism <--> Industrialism
Xenophilia <--> Xenophobia
Pacifism <--> Militarism
Spiritualism <--> Materialism
Ethic Levels
Each axis has 10 levels (5 and 5). In the ethics selection screen at the beggining of the game they will give you, lets say 7 points, each points fills one level. For example:
Equality [ ] [ ] [●] [●] [●] | [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] Hierarchy
Authority [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] | [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] Liberty
Xenophilia [ ] [ ] [ ] [●] [●] | [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] Xenophobia
Militarism [ ] [ ] [ ] [●] [●] | [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] Pacifism
Environmentalism [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] | [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] Industrialism
Materialism [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] | [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] Spiritualism
If you completely fill 1 axis you will be considered fanatic.
At the beggining you have enough points (5 + 2 or 5 + 1 + 1) to be fanatic in 1 axis right from the start. Each fanatic axis will have one extra very special bonus.
Each level will give you the same stacked bonus. For example:
Militarist: -4% Claim influence cost, +4% Ship fire rate, +5% Empire sprawl from pops, -2 Stability per level.
Fanatic Militarist (Level 5): -20% Claim influence cost, +20% Ship fire rate, +25% Empire sprawl from pops, -10 Stability, plus some special bonus.
Pacifist: Each level of pacifist: +4% Claim influence cost, -4% Ship fire rate, -5% Empire sprawl from pops, +2 Stability per level.
Fanatic Pacifist: +20% Claim influence cost, -20% Ship fire rate, -25% Empire sprawl from pops, +10 Stability, plus some special bonus.
You could also have levels on many ethical axis, not just 2 or 3, that's why every level gives also a penalty, for balance and the bonuses must be rather small.
All features would be unlocked and would gve you points towards certain ethics depending if you choose them or or not. For example, selecting slavery allowed policy would give you 2 points towards Authoritarian.
You will lose or win levels of a certain axis through your actions, policies, edicts, civics, pops (robot percentage of population determines how many points towards materialism, xenos percentage of population determine how many points towards xenophile) etc. But these policies, edicts, etc will not be locked by your ethics, on the contrary, they will define your ethics and the bonus you will get from your ethic level.
A level 5 fanatic pacifist may still declare conquest wars, however doing so will make him gain 3 points toward militaristic and descend to level 2 pacifist. Maybe specific actions will give you temporary points but structural reforms will give permanent points. So you might gain again the 3 points towards pacifist after 20 years if yu don't declare any other war. Liberation or ideology wars could cost 1 point towards militaristic instead. If you keep declaring conquest wars, you will keep those 3 points towards militaristic reseting their timers (so no stacking).
If you get more than 5 points, lets say 8, on a certain axis, lets say militarist, you would still be level 5 fanatic militarist, but would have 4 oportunities to do recevive pacifist points before you fall to level 4. So, you can have more than 5 points on a certain axis but be at most level 5.
Also you can only be level 5 in one axis, if you have to axes with more than 4 points, you will get the fanatic of the one with the most points. For example, you have 7 points towards Materialist and 5 towards Xenophobe, you would be Level 5 Fanatic Materialist (with 2 extra points) and Level 4 Xenophobe (with 1 extra point).
Xenophilia [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] | [●] [●] [●] [●] [ ] Xenophobia (+1)
Materialism (+2) [●] [●] [●] [●] [●] | [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] Spiritualism
Civics
For civics that require certain ethics like fanatic purifier: You will need 5 points in xenophobe to keep the civic, if you fall down the threshold you will loose the civic (I know, there would not be permanent civics with this system) and must choose another one.
So, most civics would give you points toward a certain axis (Police state: +3 Levels towards Authoritarian), but some civics would require a specific level to be unlocked (Fanatic purifier: Requires 5 Xenophobe levels). That would be the only locked features.
Hapiness and Opinion
The level of base faction and pop hapiness will be proportional to your level in that axis. So the militarist faction and pops in a level 4 pacifist empire will be 10% Happy. This would be an easier way to manage faction happiness than the current system.
Other empires opinion would work similarly. A level 3 Pacifist empire would have -50 Opinion on a level 2 Militarist empire and +80 Opinion on a level 5 Pacifist empire.
Same axis side: 100 - Difference (x10)
Opposite axis side: 0 - Difference (x10)
Gestalt Consciousness
This system could also be applied to organic gestalt consciusness because is more of a personality descriptor of your empire or gestalt consciusness rather than a feature blocker/enabler. A higly militaristic hive (Militarist), a contemplative hive (Spiritualist) or a Curious one (Materialistic). The only ones without ethics would be the machine empires.
There could even be special axes for Hiveminds that would determine what are they up to, and the bonuses they get. For example:
Breeding <--> Feeding
Startled <--> Docile
etc.
Breeding: Growth bonus
Feeding: Production bonus
Startled: Military bonus
Docile: Stability bonus
Imagine having a Hivemind near your empire that is Breeding and Docile, but then you click on it again and you see that it has changed to Feeding and Startled. You would know that a very angry swarm is about to come out of that part of space.
Conclusion
I know this is not what the devs intended the game to be, there are 2 aproaches always to these kind of games. The sandboxy aproach and the on rails aproach. I think both are great and i like both of them. I just feel that this game would work better with the sandboxy aproach as oposed to a historic game for example. So if the devs change their minds, they should consider this way of doing the ethics.
If you liked this suggestion please upvote it so it doesn't get ignored.
Last edited:
