OK, I used the google translation:
Estonian Where did you find Radard Ka with the address of Yak-Kashur, north of Aruba.
Still remains mysterious, an ISIS cell communication code or something?...
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Estonian Where did you find Radard Ka with the address of Yak-Kashur, north of Aruba.
Still remains mysterious, an ISIS cell communication code or something?...
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There isn't any point of being a "Nordic country" geopolitically as we live in 2021 where most of Europe is in the EU.
But the fact is that if you move away from geopolitics and actually use the term "nation", the Estonia is a Nordic nation because it is inhabited by the Estonians who are historically, culturally, by identity and mentality, Nordic.
The only reason why modern Scandinavians might think differently is because they just know very little about Estonia as it was wiped out from all schoolbooks and discussion after WW2. I'm Swedish and 20 years ago I thought that Estonia is some Eastern-European area where the people are similar to Russians, as I got smarter and expanded my knowledge, I logically realized that I was utterly wrong. It is the same with almost all Scandinavians, the 50 year gap where Estonia didn't exist had a big effect as several generations forgot everything about Estonia and its existence.
For comparison, thousands of Danes, Swedes and Finns fought in the Estonian Independence War (1918-1920) against the Russians and the Germans as the Estonians were seen as Nordic people who were historically and culturally in the same Nordic group. The (social-democratic) Danish government in 1919 actually had to put a limit on how many volunteers they allowed to go to Estonia as so many Danes wanted to help out Estonia that the government was afraid that it would be seen as official military intervention against Russia. A more right-wing government would most likely not have imposed such a limit.
Finns, Swedes and Danes dying on Estonian soil, fighting as volunteers for Estonian independence kind of shows extremely well that before the Soviet occupation, seeing Estonia as a Nordic nation was the norm. Emphasis on "nation" not "country" as "nation" is tied to culture, history etc. while "country" is a geopolitical entity.
But the fact is that if you move away from geopolitics and actually use the term "nation", the Estonia is a Nordic nation because it is inhabited by the Estonians who are historically, culturally, by identity and mentality, Nordic.
The only reason why modern Scandinavians might think differently is because they just know very little about Estonia as it was wiped out from all schoolbooks and discussion after WW2. I'm Swedish and 20 years ago I thought that Estonia is some Eastern-European area where the people are similar to Russians, as I got smarter and expanded my knowledge, I logically realized that I was utterly wrong. It is the same with almost all Scandinavians, the 50 year gap where Estonia didn't exist had a big effect as several generations forgot everything about Estonia and its existence.
For comparison, thousands of Danes, Swedes and Finns fought in the Estonian Independence War (1918-1920) against the Russians and the Germans as the Estonians were seen as Nordic people who were historically and culturally in the same Nordic group. The (social-democratic) Danish government in 1919 actually had to put a limit on how many volunteers they allowed to go to Estonia as so many Danes wanted to help out Estonia that the government was afraid that it would be seen as official military intervention against Russia. A more right-wing government would most likely not have imposed such a limit.
Finns, Swedes and Danes dying on Estonian soil, fighting as volunteers for Estonian independence kind of shows extremely well that before the Soviet occupation, seeing Estonia as a Nordic nation was the norm. Emphasis on "nation" not "country" as "nation" is tied to culture, history etc. while "country" is a geopolitical entity.
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They also fought as volunteers for Germany. Did they see Germany as a Nordic country? French also volunteered in the Waffen-SS, did they see Germany as French, or France as German?
Around 200 from Denmark volunteered, also around 200 from Sweden, Finland sent around 3500 soldiers because they feared Bolshevism. Britain also supported Estonia, and same did White Russian. This hardly point toward Denmark and Sweden and Finland believing they are Nordic. All it proves is that surrounding countries was fearful of Soviet Russia.
Tellingly no Norwegians volunteered. Likely and indicator that Norway is not focused on the area, and that Denmark, Sweden, and Finland is naturally focused on the Baltic Sea. If volunteers and military intervention jusitfy Estonia being part of the Nordic, then it also part of Britain and Russia. As far as I see, this is a flawed argument.
Around 200 from Denmark volunteered, also around 200 from Sweden, Finland sent around 3500 soldiers because they feared Bolshevism. Britain also supported Estonia, and same did White Russian. This hardly point toward Denmark and Sweden and Finland believing they are Nordic. All it proves is that surrounding countries was fearful of Soviet Russia.
Tellingly no Norwegians volunteered. Likely and indicator that Norway is not focused on the area, and that Denmark, Sweden, and Finland is naturally focused on the Baltic Sea. If volunteers and military intervention jusitfy Estonia being part of the Nordic, then it also part of Britain and Russia. As far as I see, this is a flawed argument.
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You are comparing apples and oranges + using demagoguery like focusing on a very small part of the bigger picture. You have a lot of false claims in so few sentences so I won't go into detail (but I could as I actually studied Northern-European history in university) as you obviously have some kind of (unknown to me) agenda.
You cannot compare the 1918-1920 Estonian independence war to World War 2 and the Waffen SS, those 2 things are not even remotely comparable and this could be considered trolling. Also, White Russians did not support Estonia and their North-Western army was disarmed by the Estonians at the later stages of the war as they were against Estonian independence and had never supported it. Also, by your demagogic logic, Finland isn't Nordic because it did not have Norwegian, Danish nor Icelandic volunteers in its civil war.
I already wrote too much as it was pretty apparent from your first 2 sentences that you're either very ignorant or trolling, comparing incomparable historical events separated by several decades.
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Party Crasher - Scandinavia and the World
Webcomic: Oh how often I have been asked by Estonians, “Where is Estonia? We’re a Nordic country too!” Problem is, the other Nordics
satwcomic.com
New Nordic - Scandinavia and the World
Webcomic: Scotland has said they want to be part of the Nordics when they get free from England. The Nordics have shown a positive interest
satwcomic.com
Imposter - Scandinavia and the World
Webcomic: If you look up the Estonian flag you'll find a few Nordic designs among the official flag. They are a product of Estonia feel
satwcomic.com
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This kind of shows how the viewpoint of Balts went mainstream, they were quite unhappy with a very successful country not being falsely categorized as "Baltic". The success of Estonia is based on the mindset and culture of the people in that country which I have not seen in places like Lithuania when I worked there.Party Crasher - Scandinavia and the World
Webcomic: Oh how often I have been asked by Estonians, “Where is Estonia? We’re a Nordic country too!” Problem is, the other NordicsNew Nordic - Scandinavia and the World
Webcomic: Scotland has said they want to be part of the Nordics when they get free from England. The Nordics have shown a positive interestImposter - Scandinavia and the World
Webcomic: If you look up the Estonian flag you'll find a few Nordic designs among the official flag. They are a product of Estonia feel
Those same comics have used the term "Baltic sisters" many times when referring to the "3 Baltic states". I asked my Estonian friends and none of them had ever heard of the term during their life. It came out that it is a term used by Latvians to refer to the "3 very similar Baltic nations" meanwhile Estonians call their country the "fatherland" not "motherland".
So TL;DR Countries with big populations can force their opinion onto the world as how many people will correct them if Estonia has only 900 000 Estonians? For example, I'm Swedish and I try to correct statements that are wrong about Estonia as I have learnt a lot about the country after I discovered how fascinating its history is.
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But there is the Three Sisters Hotel in Tallinn...
You know, maybe @Acheron was just trying to brighten up things a little, instead of being too serious
But there is the Three Sisters Hotel in Tallinn...
You know, maybe @Acheron was just trying to brighten up things a little, instead of being too serious
As I said, no Estonian is aware of a term called "Baltic sisters" which the maker of those comics thinks is some mainstream thing that shows how the 3 Baltic countries are some uniform area while in reality Estonians have more similarities with Icelanders than Lithuanians.
I'm not Estonian but as there are only 900 000 of them then I try to point out the extensive wrong opinions floating around about them on the internet.
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Interesting, I always assumed you were Estonian. I think you even had the Estonian Coat of Arms as your forum profile picture for several years.
It may be related to the term "Pribalty" and Russian-centered view of "Baltic States" as one thing. Even today they are having this strong view, simplications are common (like mixing up their politics and attitude to Russia) and opinion of Russians in those states is marginal compared to the size of whole Russian population.
Thus media has Russia as one of main sources to learn about Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia. Due to those actually being available to English speaking world and active, opinion about them is not defined by Russians. However, the view of that area and states there as "Baltic States" and "Pribaltika" is something going back to Russian Empire, so it is adopted without much thought and criticism - besides, Russians use the term actively.
The fact that Finnic areas are largely split up and assimilated also is a major factor. Estonia and Finland are like Bretons and Irish; closer and luckier but still split between two regions. And Latvia and Lithuania are remnants of a bigger cultural sphere that had old Prussians, Curonians, assimilated Belarusians and Litviny.
So, foreigners see three odd states, and lump them together as Russians do. Even Finland was in the group during interwar era.
However, I never heard of "Baltic sisters" commonly. But apparently Russian media uses it for some reason I can't quite understand.
Thus media has Russia as one of main sources to learn about Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia. Due to those actually being available to English speaking world and active, opinion about them is not defined by Russians. However, the view of that area and states there as "Baltic States" and "Pribaltika" is something going back to Russian Empire, so it is adopted without much thought and criticism - besides, Russians use the term actively.
The fact that Finnic areas are largely split up and assimilated also is a major factor. Estonia and Finland are like Bretons and Irish; closer and luckier but still split between two regions. And Latvia and Lithuania are remnants of a bigger cultural sphere that had old Prussians, Curonians, assimilated Belarusians and Litviny.
So, foreigners see three odd states, and lump them together as Russians do. Even Finland was in the group during interwar era.
However, I never heard of "Baltic sisters" commonly. But apparently Russian media uses it for some reason I can't quite understand.
I moved to Estonia for work and family related reasons a while back.
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Estonia and Finland are not in different geographic regions. Tallinn and Helsinki are in essence twin cities and even office workers move between offices in both cities for work related reasons. Finland is geographically in the eastern Baltic area and this is an existing region that historians use but the "Baltic states" stopped being a geographic term after the 1950's when Finland stopped being called Baltic and they were also annoyed that people in Europe thought that Finns are actually Balts which they are not. Same thing with Estonia, if it should be put in a general "region" where it shares its culture, mentality and identity with the others in that region then the term "Nordic" is the only generalization that works. "Finnic" if we want to be more specific as Finns/Estonians are not Scandinavian.
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I would say that a lot of it is due to the cultural and language proximity as well. But I agree. What I meant was that the geographic continuum was severed after all by sea (well, gulf) as other regions of Finnish people got assimilated and Russians built up Saint Petersburg.
I also wonder, do you happen to know if "Rail Baltica" is going to include a tunnel/bridge under gulf of Finland?
Larger region is Northern-Europe, more specific term is North-Eastern Europe/Eastern Baltic. Before the 1950's, the term "Baltic states" was used for the 4 Baltic states of Finland, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania on the eastern shores of the Baltic sea. "Baltic" was short for "Eastern Baltic states".
Nobody uses the geographic term anymore as it is just confusing if you include non-Balts in it like Finns/Estonians. Even in 2021, many Europeans think that Estonians are culturally related to Lithuanians and speak Latvian/Lithuanian because they're "Baltic".
You think too much in the context of cars and modern highways. For most of human history in the north after the ice age, the sea has been an uniting factor not a dividing factor. That's why Estonians were in the same cultural zone with Scandinavians already before the viking age and had very little to do with Balts who were inland people.
For this reason, Northern Estonians shared more with Finns 80km north of them than with other Estonian tribes 80km south of them.
Some "geographic continuum being severed" is just false and using some odd logic. It doesn't matter much who controls or lives in the Ingria region as through history, contact over the sea has always been the main and most optimal way to have contacts between Estonians & Finns. If the entire 3800km coastline of Estonia would be occupied by some foreign force then we could talk about "geographic continuum being severed".
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Politicians occasionally like to talk about the idea, but realistically it seems unlikely as it would require