r907 said:
heh, typical westernian, are you sure you really know enough about eastern europe to write such statement? furthermore the age of enlighment is just , how many? last 50-70 years of the game?
Estern Europe
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heh, typical westernian, are you sure you really know enough about eastern europe to write such statement? furthermore the age of enlighment is just , how many? last 50-70 years of the game?
The center of the world was in Vienna.... does the Habsburg monarchy count as the East or the West?
Personally i think its a bit sad that the main focus is once again on western europe. I would have loved to get a bit more into the lesser know parts of history.
But considering Johanns statement economics might forbid such a focus for one of their large flagship titles. But maybe we can hope for an expansion/ad-on for a bit more flesh on the lesser explored parts of the game world.
But considering Johanns statement economics might forbid such a focus for one of their large flagship titles. But maybe we can hope for an expansion/ad-on for a bit more flesh on the lesser explored parts of the game world.
Mad King James said:
Yet because a nation will be richer and with a higher tech with fewer provences things are not as one sided as people make things out. And with how units are now built and how replacements work fewer provinces are Not the problem they were in the past for army construction and replacements. Since you no longer construct replacements you dont need "more" provinces to build up your army's loses. And no one said there was no advantage to more provinces we simply pointed out that thre are a LOT of advantages. and so much of this thread has been whining about how "terrible" the west treats the east'
Lets just look at some points on this issue here
1) When your market is Western Europe and North America (of which the vast majority of of N.A. population comes from western europe) you are going to concentrate on those areas in the game. Its not rude or disrespectful its simply a matter of concetrating on the areas that are more LIKELY to be of intrest to that market. people are finding offence where non has been given...
2) when you only have so many provinces before sytem resorces are used up. You have to choices on which areas get more provinces than other areas...
3) When there are MAJOR advantages to having fewer provinces so its not a complete Handicap, it becomes less of an Issue...
4) When most areas that I have seen in the game have more provinces than they had in EU2 you have less problems that you indicated as a reason for concern. So your points while true are inaccurate or rather invalid in terms of state of the current situation, as most eastern european minors now have more provinces than they did previously... (at least from what I have seen)
5) When army's replacements are handed without construction. Your need for a lot of provinces to make up combat loses becomes a non-issue...
When one takes all these points into consideration its MORE THAN CLEAR that paradox has neither slighted/insulted or placed eastern europe at a huge disadvantage in terms of game play. So why all the complaining?
As for the concerns about the Russians and the Ottamans, I see them as being weaker if they had the province desity of say France or the Lowlands. They are stronger with fewer richer provinces than they are with more poorer provinces. I agree with you that the Turks and the Russians are powers to be feared but i dont see increased province density in eastern europe as the answer, quite the reverse.
Another relatively simple bonus featured in EU2. More provinces = more province improvements. Say you had one 10 tax income province or two 5 tax income provinces. The two tax income provinces had larger growth potential since they could house two manufactories, thus their limit was not capped at 16 but 22.
Not going to write much as I find this discussion rather pointless (with all the respect of course - but its just a waste of time). Just a small reflection: so basically if I want to try to change something I should rather buy a copy of EUIII in Poland (where I was born) than in the UK (where I live atm)? More copies sold = more attention paid by Paradox. 
And another thing: I`ve started to play EU, then HoI, EU2, Victoria etcetc (all oryginal copies of course, bought back in Poland). I was NEVER under the impression that Eastern/Central (call it whatever you want) Europe was treated worse than Western one (with one famous exception of polish provinces of Poznan and Gniezno). Then I`ve started to use forums and read all the accucations about how wrong 'we' are treated. You need to chill out and realize its a game made for profit! And that explains everything.
And another thing: I`ve started to play EU, then HoI, EU2, Victoria etcetc (all oryginal copies of course, bought back in Poland). I was NEVER under the impression that Eastern/Central (call it whatever you want) Europe was treated worse than Western one (with one famous exception of polish provinces of Poznan and Gniezno). Then I`ve started to use forums and read all the accucations about how wrong 'we' are treated. You need to chill out and realize its a game made for profit! And that explains everything.
Brownbeard said:
not to mention more chances to get a tax income increase event or a free manufactory event
There are too many it is not worth to advocate it.
MyMap featured a very well made eastern europe without slowing down game at all. I would like to see how a 12 province france will do against a 35 province ottos , or a 2 province england against 15 province romania ; number of provinces do matter and eastern europe is destroyed because of the map (in eu 2 at least).
You must have a very good computer then. It runs at a snail's pace on mine.4AD said:
EDIT: and yes even in EUIII more provinces would mean a heavier burden on your system. MrT has said as much.
Sathariel said:Not going to write much as I find this discussion rather pointless (with all the respect of course - but its just a waste of time). Just a small reflection: so basically if I want to try to change something I should rather buy a copy of EUIII in Poland (where I was born) than in the UK (where I live atm)? More copies sold = more attention paid by Paradox.
/signed
I`m a croat, living in austria. I`ve played EU I, II, Vicky, CrdK, HoI, HoII ... all bought in austria ... i even "infected" two friends of mine ... who are ... hungarian und polish and ... right ... both are living in austria .
So the funny thing ist, the ones I know who play paradox games, are all more or less eastern`s. And to be honest johann. Your answer is giving me a hard time ... shall i know buy the games in croatia or shall i simply take your quite insensitive answer and cancel my order...
anyway ... modding ftw ...
Balkan and other stories...
My first post after so much time… :rofl:
I disagree with those who said that Eastern Europe is not well covered. Paradox Plaza is one of the rare companies who mostly accurate present Eastern Europe. I don’t see any arguments which oppose it. In EU2 map is excellent. I like how is Balkan done. Not 100% accurate but 90%.
Just look new M2TW. Map in Balkan is modern copy/paste map. It’s terrible!
And those who claim that EE is not good, game will be again (almost) full modable, so I don’t see reason for bashing Paradox Plaza.
About density:
In the beginning of XVI century 5 cities have more than 100 000 inhabitants: Istanbul, Milan, Naples, Paris and Venice.
In the end of XVI century some of those cities doubled their number of inhabitants and another eight cities reached 100 000 inhabitants: Antwerp, Lisbon, London, Marseille, Messina, Moscow, Palermo, Rome and Seville.
For example, there is no Romania in Europa Universalis timeframe.
Good point – “Romania”. There is no Romania until 1858.
My first post after so much time… :rofl:
I disagree with those who said that Eastern Europe is not well covered. Paradox Plaza is one of the rare companies who mostly accurate present Eastern Europe. I don’t see any arguments which oppose it. In EU2 map is excellent. I like how is Balkan done. Not 100% accurate but 90%.
Just look new M2TW. Map in Balkan is modern copy/paste map. It’s terrible!
And those who claim that EE is not good, game will be again (almost) full modable, so I don’t see reason for bashing Paradox Plaza.
About density:
In the beginning of XVI century 5 cities have more than 100 000 inhabitants: Istanbul, Milan, Naples, Paris and Venice.
In the end of XVI century some of those cities doubled their number of inhabitants and another eight cities reached 100 000 inhabitants: Antwerp, Lisbon, London, Marseille, Messina, Moscow, Palermo, Rome and Seville.
Dima said:
For example, there is no Romania in Europa Universalis timeframe.
Havard said:
Good point – “Romania”. There is no Romania until 1858.
Registered said:
Yes i do have a top system .
Devs could at least maintain some balance between east and west instead of just dooming east for the favor of west.
You (and few other members) have to stop thinking in EU 2 terms. Stability, economy, techspeed, movement speed, doesn't depend on number of provinces, AFAIK (i'm not 100% sure, though)Tzar Kalojan said:
I'm only concerned about playability - you see, the border between PLC and Muscovy changed quite a lot, in different ways, during the timeframe...Havard said:
DukeofSerbia said:
I disagree with you.... I reely like the map of the Balkans in M2TW, because Walachia,Moldovia and Transilvanya exists! And i"m sorry for you because SERBIA dosent exists and CROATIA exists(Zagreb)
And when I say to Romania, I refer to the Romanian space(old DACHIA)
And the first union of the romanian states was in 1600,by MICHELL DE BRAVE(Mihai Viteazu),manage to do this in EU2 or I think in EU3.
Sorry for my english
I prefer honesty to PRrybka said:This is not really good PR
"Of course we focus more on the west, but we always kept in mind eastern europe, as well as we can assure that customers from budapest are as close to our heart as from london
Seriously, you don't have to be from the region to care about the historical playability of that region. I'd like comparatively more developed Ottoman Empire and India, for example
Yes, there are members that argue about this due to nationalist feelings. I am not one of them - i like to play Sweden, PLC and Muscovy alike, and the thing i care about is the ability of the game to reflect centuries-long struggle between those powers.Coen said:
Two provinces (ok, 5, to be hones) that divide capital of two rivalling powers don't allow for long struggle.
Brownbeard said:
The Habsburg monarchy is a Western nation!
In my opinion even Hungary,Grece,Croatia and Poland ar Western nation.
Only Serbia,Bulgaria,Romania,Ucraina,Lithuania and Russia are Estern Europeens!
Sorry for my english
DarthMaur said:
Well, if things are like that...great. But we cannot be 100% sure until the game is out, ain`t that right
DukeofSerbia said:
About density:
In the beginning of XVI century 5 cities have more than 100 000 inhabitants: Istanbul, Milan, Naples, Paris and Venice.
In the end of XVI century some of those cities doubled their number of inhabitants and another eight cities reached 100 000 inhabitants: Antwerp, Lisbon, London, Marseille, Messina, Moscow, Palermo, Rome and Seville.
I know what do you whant to say.......But I auto-contradict
your self! As you can see population can grow,but the LAND IS IMORTAL!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FOR LAND HUMANS FIGHT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sow, lets say that it wold be faire, if for example the Netherlands( aprox 30.000 sqare Km, I correct my self) is composed from 3 prvince,each with a big population and with a big tax income.
And Walachia(alone)(aprox 80.000 sqare Km) is composed from 8 provinces with a low population and a low tax income.
With what will derange you this???????
Sorry for my english
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