Estates feel like too much Micromanagement

[BarrosRodrigues]

we have some abstractions and game play based design choices, so all arguments for realism are out the window? Why even play a game like this if you complain when they attempt to be historically accurate?

Abstractions and arcade are too different things and unfortunately for realism sake the game is currently nearly 100% arcade. Despite wanting a game with as many plausible mechanics as possible I find that this game already has too many rebel inducing mechanics and the introduction of another one is not needed from the POV of their primary role. Ofc I could change opinion if rebels and rebellions were made plausible which they currently are not (the only commendable exception is separatists having the same military "skill" of their tag if it is still alive). With that said and despite being arcade I still find the base game design very clever (…) and fun.

 

[Tavior]

Does developing another province make any difference - to balance the books so to speak?

It does change how much a province grant influence (higher development = more influence) to a lesser degree loyalty. But the original problem remain true because It is difficult to adjustment by spending MP on province with 25% LA floor or in case of hordes 50% LA floor with little benefit. The estate system still benefit players that go wide rather than tall except for the Hordes which has a hardcap on expansion.

 

[cahtush]

After playing a bit as a horde the tribes could really use some changes.
1. Loyalty lost from having less than the expected land should go back up again very slowly based on how much above the expected amount they hold, currently it seems to be lost forever.
2. Defeating Tribal rebellions should increase their loyalty and decrease their influence. Maybe make them harsher and release a few hordes (based on your size and cores within your land) if they win to balance.
3. Influence if you have more than X cities should be changed, currently the version is way too harsh and drastic. Just making the change more gradual instead of it suddenly increase would work.
4. Razing should slightly increase loyalty.
It's currently very easy to get stuck in a trap where you forget to add lands after conquering, get loyalty reduced a lot and have no way to increase it to thirty without going over 80% influence or resetting everything and having to fight a very large amount of rebels.

 

[Nirmara]

Micromanagement isn't so bad, the UI is, especially when you want to specialize your provinces. Adding an estate icon to relevant provinces when using the development/manpower map would be an elegant way to improve the UI.

 

[Kapitalisti]

Loving this feature but damn, those lazy burgers. No way to keep them loyal...

 

[Nirmara]

Loving this feature but damn, those lazy burgers. No way to keep them loyal...

Just ignore their loyalty, most nation can do fine economically without their trade bonus and their contribution isn't that significant.

Also, it's not like they were able historically to overtrow the monarchy.

 

[Just_Vison]

Are people actually already complaining about this? While there's still kinks that need to be worked out, Estates are the biggest leap forward for the series.

 

[TheDungen]

Just ignore their loyalty, most nation can do fine economically without their trade bonus and their contribution isn't that significant.

Also, it's not like they were able historically to overtrow the monarchy.

It didn't happen everywhere and it took them a while though,

 

[Kapitalisti]

Are people actually already complaining about this? While there's still kinks that need to be worked out, Estates are the biggest leap forward for the series.

This is the internets, people WILL complain about anything.

 

[Mztr44]

Are people actually already complaining about this? While there's still kinks that need to be worked out, Estates are the biggest leap forward for the series.

It's not so much complaining as it is observations and gut feelings, opinions, etc. In the hopes of grabbing the occasional constructive feedback that Paradox can use to improve their new content. I even said it in my original post starting this thread. I'm still playing the game, i'm still having fun.

 

[Freudia]

The system's interesting to a degree, but it could use a little more player agency I think. Just a couple of extra ways to raise loyalty of the factions would help the system go a long way.

It's a very solid starting point for the system, though. Just needs a little something extra.

 

[FWalrus]

Scary thread made me scared of the Cossacks Dlc, I need guidance, is it worth to buy it?

 

[misiceman]

Just going to echo some of the sentiment. I think there needs a small balancing pass from paradox like they usually do with these things. Especially tribes in hordes... I get that they don't like the idea of a super huge horde and staying stable (i.e. reform or die) but as is its kinda crazy. also the rebel stacks are getting insane again. I agree it was mostly meh in 1.13 but this feels like when you used to sit at 101% OE and died to rebels. As usual its one of those we went to far and will tone down later (cause 1.13 beta AE, caugh caugh).

 

[Fryslan0109]

And internal politics are good.

I'm iffy about the idea of representing influence by assigning provinces though, and it sounds like the Estate system is heavily dependent on events to shake things up. Maybe in EU5 they can be baked into the core of the game rather than tacked on, and the weakening of the estates can be a primary goal of the player as they strive to centralize their nation over the centuries.

It would be cool if there were more internal reforms that could be passed to rein in estates, but as much as I would like that, I can see it being argued as being more the domain of the Victoria series.

 

[bbqftw]

The system's interesting to a degree, but it could use a little more player agency I think. Just a couple of extra ways to raise loyalty of the factions would help the system go a long way.

It's a very solid starting point for the system, though. Just needs a little something extra.

yeah, its not very transparent what is affecting loyalty at all. Just events or is there ticking loyalty gain of some sort?

 

[Freudia]

yeah, its not very transparent what is affecting loyalty at all. Just events or is there ticking loyalty gain of some sort?

From what I can see, just events and the very, very few button clicks the player has that you can only do once every 20 years or something.

 

[nwil10]

There are some ways around influence. You could grant the county with over 80 influence to a vassal for instance.

There are a couple of things that need work. The pluses and minuses should be permanent not temporary or at least some of the choices should. There should be ticking loyalty for being above 15% for nobility and clergy.

 

[BarrosRodrigues]

Scary thread made me scared of the Cossacks Dlc, I need guidance, is it worth to buy it?

If you can endure the chore that is handling the estates then the rest of the content is worth the money despite taking some functionality away the quality of life improvements justify spending the money. On the other hand if you can´t stand rebels or stupid events then the estates will definitely hurt your ability to enjoy the game to the point of thinking about disabling the dlc. Btw if this is already a chore playing as 10 province country I can only imagine what it will do to me when I am playing my usual WC type campaigns.

 

[nwil10]

Overall I love the system

 

[BarrosRodrigues]

There are some ways around influence. You could grant the county with over 80 influence to a vassal for instance.

If it is not adjacent to them and they don´t have a claim or core forget about it but I digress. Yes, giving our cores away is well worth it for the whopping bonuses the estates provide.