Establishing the Cossack Regiments

[SonofWinter]

Could I request that the Establish Cossack Regiments and Expand Cossack Regiments be made so that they are worth it?

Currently most players think it is a bad idea to have these privileges in the Cossack Estate. Quite frankly, I can't think of a single reason why I'd want to give up that much Absolutism and that much Land ownership for such a very mediocre return on investment.

Perhaps give it a flat percentage like the Hussars, rather than one based on amount of land owned by the Estate. And perhaps remove the absolutism cost for at least the Expand Cossack Regiments...?

 

[DukeLeto42]

It might be a different story if most of the nations that get Cossacks didn't also get Streltsy - why invest so much of a nation's economic and political resources to get a second type of powerful units when I can already field a frontline of Streltsy?

 

[annulen]

It might be a different story if most of the nations that get Cossacks didn't also get Streltsy - why invest so much of a nation's economic and political resources to get a second type of powerful units when I can already field a frontline of Streltsy?

Because Streltsy is only infantry, while Cossacks make great cavalry?

 

[DukeLeto42]

Because Streltsy is only infantry, while Cossacks make great cavalry?

As St. Arumba teaches, cav bad.

 

[annulen]

As St. Arumba teaches, cav bad.

Nonsense.

 

[SonofWinter]

As St. Arumba teaches, cav bad.

St. Arumba teaches cav good for Poland, PLC, Lithuania and LPC.

 

[FishieFan]

Could I request that the Establish Cossack Regiments and Expand Cossack Regiments be made so that they are worth it?

Currently most players think it is a bad idea to have these privileges in the Cossack Estate. Quite frankly, I can't think of a single reason why I'd want to give up that much Absolutism and that much Land ownership for such a very mediocre return on investment.

Perhaps give it a flat percentage like the Hussars, rather than one based on amount of land owned by the Estate. And perhaps remove the absolutism cost for at least the Expand Cossack Regiments...?

Absolutism isn't needed for first 200 years, that's plenty of time to seize land in

 

[SonofWinter]

Absolutism isn't needed for first 200 years, that's plenty of time to seize land in

Your sentence does not make sense in the context of this conversation. Please explain what you meant with what you meant.

 

[FishieFan]

Your sentence does not make sense in the context of this conversation. Please explain what you meant with what you meant.

You complain the privileges arent worth it because you need to give up land and absolutism.
Absolutism doesnt kick in until 1600s, as such you dont need to worry about it until then. You can seize 5% crownland every 5 years. As such the 200ish years you have until at max absolutism, gives you plenty of time to grant land and seize land in

 

[SonofWinter]

You complain the privileges arent worth it because you need to give up land and absolutism.
Absolutism doesnt kick in until 1600s, as such you dont need to worry about it until then. You can seize 5% crownland every 5 years. As such the 200ish years you have until at max absolutism, gives you plenty of time to grant land and seize land in

Ok, this is what I thought you meant but I wanted to make sure, since I didn't want to assume.

If I have 100% crownland, this ENTIRE privilege is worth NOTHING.

That's the entire point of this thread, at 100% Crown Lands, both of these privileges will give the player ZERO Cossack Regiments.

The ENTIRE privilege hinges on the Cossack estate having crownland. And since I'm playing Poland, everyone but the Szlachta (Nobles) lose their crownlands first. So if I get to 50% of crownlands, all remaining crownlands belong to the Nobles and there is NONE for the Cossack/Burghers/Clergy estates.

 

[DukeLeto42]

Oh, wow - I've ignored the Cossacks so much that I didn't even realize how the Special Unit forcelimit calculations mean you can easily have a cap of 0.

That's... that's so terrible. Without a floor to forcelimit, the only way to make use of them is not just the usual privilege trade-off of max. Absolutism, but to avoid the entire estate land system.

 

[SonofWinter]

Oh, wow - I've ignored the Cossacks so much that I didn't even realize how the Special Unit forcelimit calculations mean you can easily have a cap of 0.

That's... that's so terrible. Without a floor to forcelimit, the only way to make use of them is not just the usual privilege trade-off of max. Absolutism, but to avoid the entire estate land system.

If you agree, it would be nice to upvote this thread so that a fix will get done.

 

[FishieFan]

Ok, this is what I thought you meant but I wanted to make sure, since I didn't want to assume.

If I have 100% crownland, this ENTIRE privilege is worth NOTHING.

That's the entire point of this thread, at 100% Crown Lands, both of these privileges will give the player ZERO Cossack Regiments.

The ENTIRE privilege hinges on the Cossack estate having crownland. And since I'm playing Poland, everyone but the Szlachta (Nobles) lose their crownlands first. So if I get to 50% of crownlands, all remaining crownlands belong to the Nobles and there is NONE for the Cossack/Burghers/Clergy estates.

Thats why they modified the privileges to make it so you cant seize land from them. As poland you want to remove that nobility privleige, as Russia or Lithuania you dont have to worry about the noble privleige.
If your estates have 0% crownland their influence and loyalty will change to, meaning their bonuses from being loyal will vary, this is what makes seize land have trade offs

 

[SonofWinter]

Thats why they modified the privileges to make it so you cant seize land from them. As poland you want to remove that nobility privleige, as Russia or Lithuania you dont have to worry about the noble privleige.
If your estates have 0% crownland their influence and loyalty will change to, meaning their bonuses from being loyal will vary, this is what makes seize land have trade offs

Correct but once you have 100% Crownland, your Cossack Estate has 0% Crownland, so the entire privilege is null and void as this particular privlige will give you 0 Cossack Regiments by about 1590.

And since Poland -> PLC used Cossack horsemen for the majority of the time period, there should be a certain amount, of... you know, Cossacks.

Otherwise, the entire Estate is just worthless as it is an Estate that is meant to generate Cossack troops.

Hence my request to change the Cossack Regiments privilege to have a minimum of 5%, otherwise the entire privilege is pointless and worthless to the player.

 

[annulen]

The idea behind real-life Cossacks was that these people owned their land and paid no taxes, but in return they had to fully equip and train themselves and be ready to get mobilized at any time. So, Cossacks providing army while having no lands doesn't sound really plausible.

And 5% limit doesn't change much. If you choose to have Cossacks at all you want to be able to replace all your cavalry with them, and to make consistent use of flanking you need about 10% of cavalry in your army, or maybe even a bit more (and if you go for cavalry build, you need much more of them).

So, I think the best solution would be to remove -5 max absolutism penalty from both privileges, or make it proportionate to Cossacks' land share.

 

[SonofWinter]

The idea behind real-life Cossacks was that these people owned their land and paid no taxes, but in return they had to fully equip and train themselves and be ready to get mobilized at any time. So, Cossacks providing army while having no lands doesn't sound really plausible.

And 5% limit doesn't change much. If you choose to have Cossacks at all you want to be able to replace all your cavalry with them, and to make consistent use of flanking you need about 10% of cavalry in your army, or maybe even a bit more (and if you go for cavalry build, you need much more of them).

So, I think the best solution would be to remove -5 max absolutism penalty from both privileges, or make it proportionate to Cossacks' land share.

The same idea behind real-life Hussars existed. Hussars don't need Crownlands and neither do Cossacks.

Crownlands do not represent 100% of the total National land ownership, only 100% Crownland ownership. The Crown would give out land to people in lieu of salaries and taking back Crownlands is simply taking back what rightfully belonged to the King and the Crown. Crownlands might represent 20% of the total land available if even that much.

Once you have 100% of the Crownland, all estates would cease to exist if Crownlands represented ALL land in the Nation. Also according to your position, if I understand it correctly, the same would go for the Streltsy and all other Special Units, they would all have to cease to exist once you have 100% Crownlands.

I never said I wanted to change ALL my cavalry with Cossacks, you pulled that argument out of thin air. I said I would like to have as many Cossacks as I have Hussars. And yes, Cossacks can have their own land, as they were essentially non-noble gentry. So essentially warriors without titles. Land ownership and tax exemption, are already represented in the game, steppe provinces provide more mp and provide less taxes.