Espinonage Idea Group

[Shavanna]

Hello,
Im curious why so many people tend to pick espionage ideas over diplomatic ideas. In my point of view, espionage is almost useless in singleplayer and only shines in multiplayer, where you can make the game significally harder for other human player by using the espionage-abilities. Am i wrong here and espionage would benefit for singleplayer too? If thats the case: why and which strategies are good to use with it?

 

[hajutze]

I guess I'd pick it if I play a republic (if memory serves me right one of the 2 policies for +0.25 RT required espionage)

 

[Denkt]

You can do the life much harder for ai countries to.

 

[mgoetze]

Espionage was briefly good after they fixed fabricate claim discovery chance and before they nerfed coalitions.

Also, where are you getting these stats on what idea groups other people are picking?

 

[A Swell Guy]

If you take the policy unlocked by espionage and economic ideas, you can support rebels, and increase unrest by 8 points. Sowing discontent also increases global unrest by 1. You could accelerate the rate at which rebels spawn tremendously, given you can afford to do so.

 

[Shavanna]

Also, where are you getting these stats on what idea groups other people are picking?

Some people post their idea-picks in some discussions. I've seen many people pick espionage there, so i'm curious why they do this. Thats all. No statistic survey involved .

 

[Denkt]

Espionage allow you to know where the enemy armies are which can be very important to know, espacially if you wan't to decleare war on a stronger country.

Support rebels is stronger then ever and can be a threat to any country.
Sabotage reputation instantly give I think -50 with everyone making it far harder for them to get allies and war more likely.

Aristocratic + espionage unlocks a policy that give +20% cavalry power.

 

[SacredDatura]

So what I'm getting is, it's a good late game idea group to pick when you're basically invincible, have a bunch of cash, and want to mess with your neighbours? Still doesn't sound like it's worth forgoing Diplomatic, or Influence, or Trade for it.

 

[Denkt]

Opposite, it shines then you are weak.
Isolating countries may give you power which you wouldn't Otherwise have.
Destroying the great powers with rebels allowing you to get all the land is great.

 

[AureliusBob]

I think the problem with that group in SP is that in ironman the only countries that you would really use espionage on are the blobbing lucky nations. Those lucky nations have bonuses against rebels and unrest and therefore it becomes less useful.

 

[Yorkie-GBR]

irrc it has some bad events.

Only take it for RP, but now I am playing more games with locked ledger it becomes very useful.

 

[nicechinos]

irrc it has some bad events.

Only take it for RP, but now I am playing more games with locked ledger it becomes very useful.

It has at least two great policies. One is -1% army tradition decay which allows reaching permanent army tradition with any country. The other us +20% cavalry combat ability.

 

[saegoto]

espionage needs rework. support rebels, inflitrate adminsitration, embargo, pravateers, diplomat are good. spy offence, spy defence, -impact covers actions are pretty useless.

 

[Leoap]

Espionage is nearly always one of the late ideas i pick.... i think the advantage of infiltrate administration , and view the enemy troops is huge.

 

[Viperswhip]

Espionage is nearly always one of the late ideas i pick.... i think the advantage of infiltrate administration , and view the enemy troops is huge.

This, especially for fighting big countries. Even at the start of the game it would make taking out France/Muscovy/Ming, etc...way, way easier.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

The big thing that the idea gives you are the new diplo actions. Effective use of them generally requires a stronger power to use them on. If you're already the strongest power in the world, there isn't a need for them. Influence is the better pick then.