Escort Fighters as Brigade Attachement?

[Mattias]

I don't even think new models are supposed to appear at all, so perhaps there is a line somewhere in some file that needs to be added too....

Maybe I was a bit unclear - what i did was replacing the word tactical_bomber (or whatever it is, I don't have the game in front of me) in the description of the division in the scenario-file (were the name of the Sqn and individual units is, together with it's map-location, strenght e.t.c.). I have done this many times with existing unit-types but not with a type that is supposed not to exist - i.e. escorts)

Fly a continuous CAP with two or four aircraft and shoot down any recon aircraft that tries to get close. Even a small CAP would also be sufficient to significantly disrupt attacking waves, playing havoc with their aim

You mean CAP as done by carrier-based planes like I said or do you mean anything else (and I was talking about long-range "naval fighters" in game - as could be done with the "escorts" in HoI 2 )?! /M

 

[Brasidas]

OK, I forgot. In any case, CAS can't. So I assume half of the people, complaining about ESC-F being attached to CAS thus lowering their mission range don't even have a copy of DD, didn't play a single game, in short they are complaining about things they don't know.

Sad

Complaining about others objecting to an inconsistent range cap is sad. If escort fighters are no longer attachable to CAS because of the ridiculousness of of reducing the range of of a short-ranged aircraft by escorting it with a longer-ranged aircraft, which Blue Emu says was previously the case, then Paradox has caught on to the problem.

What I am hoping will be implemented in the future is something along the lines of the speed caps implemented for ground units with brigades. Mountain divisions, iirc, won't travel faster than x with an engineering brigade. If air units won't travel farther than y with an escort brigade, then the problem is solved.

As it is now, a tactical bomber can't travel as far under escort as a strategic bomber. Unless a strategic bomber squadron has in-air refuelling tankers and a tactical bomber squadron does not, this is fishy.

_______

But then again, being blind substantially opens up ones dating pool.

 

[unmerged(48204)]

Liebgot, your suggestion requires 4 Air Brigades. I fear we're stuck with only one.

with one brigade-type available, it should be possible to create more models. so theoretically you could have your 4 "brigade-types" for air.
only problem, the player could use all of them, but the ai will allways build the last model.

 

[Kikaider]

with one brigade-type available, it should be possible to create more models. so theoretically you could have your 4 "brigade-types" for air.
only problem, the player could use all of them, but the ai will allways build the last model.

But lets see the brigade we could maybe drop
L-A (1 model that no one uses)
AC (Rarely used)
SHA (Some use it for uber-tanks) (maybe not this one)

We still have the ints and ftrs, as we also have the esc brigade.

Why not drop L-A in favor of a brigade long-range variant for FTRs (drop attack and speed, incr range) and call it drop tanks

And drop AC in favor of a brigade that is a night fighter varient, though this one may not work because of how modifiers work

The esc fighter brigade is still escorting strats and tacs, but now we could have long range fighters as well

 

[unmerged(48204)]

But lets see the brigade we could maybe drop
L-A (1 model that no one uses)
AC (Rarely used)
SHA (Some use it for uber-tanks) (maybe not this one)

We still have the ints and ftrs, as we also have the esc brigade.

Why not drop L-A in favor of a brigade long-range variant for FTRs (drop attack and speed, incr range) and call it drop tanks

And drop AC in favor of a brigade that is a night fighter varient, though this one may not work because of how modifiers work

The esc fighter brigade is still escorting strats and tacs, but now we could have long range fighters as well

this was tested in hoi2. you cannot "transform" a land brigade to sea/air. after changing the database- ctd. it's hardcoded.

 

[egslim]

You mean CAP as done by carrier-based planes like I said or do you mean anything else (and I was talking about long-range "naval fighters" in game - as could be done with the "escorts" in HoI 2 )?! /M

CAP's can be flown by either carrier based planes or long range land based ones. You could use HOI2 Escorts to fly aircover for a fleet, just like in reality a land-based airwing could provide cover through maintaining a continuous CAP over such a fleet.

with one brigade-type available, it should be possible to create more models. so theoretically you could have your 4 "brigade-types" for air.
only problem, the player could use all of them, but the ai will allways build the last model.

Also the player would have to make sure interceptors don't upgrade into long range fighters. As far as I know, the 'no upgrade' button only works at a corps level - so using that means the aircraft they're attached to don't upgrade either.

 

[unmerged(48204)]

Also the player would have to make sure interceptors don't upgrade into long range fighters. As far as I know, the 'no upgrade' button only works at a corps level - so using that means the aircraft they're attached to don't upgrade either.

this is no problem. you can build an unupgradeable brigade-tree.
e.g.:
model 1-4 interceptor,
model 5 break
model 6-10 longe range fighter
model 11 break... and so on
problem is, the ai will build only longe range fighters, no interceptors.

look in the hsr-mod, there heavy-brigades are countryspecific using a similar method

 

[Der Bismarck]

I would recommend:

1) Keep escorts as a "Brigade" attachment, but assign a max range, adjustable by tech advances

2) Bring back the Escort Fighter "division", rename it LR Fighters; let it evolve into spyplanes in the later models

3) add another attachable "Brigade" called Nightfighting Equipment/Radar which is attachable to LR Fighters, STRAT bombers & Ships. The "Brigade" gives nightfighting/night bombing/spotting capabilities

 

[Mattias]

CAP's can be flown by either carrier based planes or long range land based ones. You could use HOI2 Escorts to fly aircover for a fleet, just like in reality a land-based airwing could provide cover through maintaining a continuous CAP over such a fleet. ...

I understand the theoretical possibility of land based long-range fighters flying CAP over a fleet but is it possible IRL to fly CAP missions over a fleet in the Norwegian Sea from bases in England?? How many planes do one need to constantly have the fleet covered by 4 fighters in daytime (since many of them will be on their way to or from the fleet)?? And if the fleet moves (wint 30 kts= 55 km/h) is it possible to give the fighters moving towards its new position while keeping it secret from the enemy? Wouldn't this be a bit more difficult IRL than it was with the previous escorts in HoI? /Mattias

PS I think der Bismarck's suggestion is quite good DS

 

[unmerged(38177)]

I'm ALREADY doing this . . .

Bring back the Escort Fighter "division", rename it LR Fighters;

I Have worked out the Models, and it can be in place as soon as a revised research tree shows it. In fact I could have a FUNCTIONAL reintroduction, within a day or two, which would be FULLY COMPATIBLE with Doomsday. You have to admit that the existing tree is getting pretty damm full:

use the Multi-Role Fighter Models:

0 - Basic... range 350km (1938)
1 - Improv range 400km (1940)
2 - Adv..... range 500km (1943)
3 - Turbo.. range 550km (1944)
4 - Imp Tb range 600km (1947)
5 - Ssonic range 650km (1950)
[skip]
7 - Basic LR.. Range 450km (1937) [range was 800]
8 - Improv LR Range 550km (1940) [range was 1000]
9 - Adv LR ... range 650km (1943) [range was 1300]

This would allow Turbo Multi-Role to meet the same range at the end of development, thereby making obsolete the LR Fighter (as occured historically.) I chose the range, as this is the range of TacB/Esc, and also is reasonable based upon the original HOI1 aircraft ranges.

I also think the ESC brigades needs to be "detuned" a little. I found this comparison to be enlightening. First, if you consider the brigades as a unit, brigading bombers gives you a "Double Stacking" advantage, or 8 units per a commander in a stack. If you ignore this, and assume they are only 4 units:

Basic Esc F (hoi2) = 5 Air Attack, 8 Air Defence
TacB + Esc (dd) = 5 Air Attack, 7 Air Defence (+ All Bombing Benifits)

TacB / Esc in Doomsday is like flying solid LR Fighter groups.. Game balance has been destroyed. It starts to curve better later, but it is still bad. The ultimate range combo is the NavB/Esc. It has a range of 650 in 1938, and becomes 850km in 1941. Unless the ESC is reduced in strength, why build anything but the NavB/Esc.

Final Note: They forgot about Air Transports. (a) they still have the low range imposed on them in Release 1.3, AND (b) they are NOT able to have ESC. They need to have range re-introduced to 600/700/800 (same as TacB) from the 400/500/600 currently imposed, and have the ability to have EscF added to them. This should cure a long standing argument regarding range, and allow the AI to add escorts to them.

Does somebody want to host files with these changes?