Equipment fielded (produced) for Operation Barbarossa.

[dek55]

What is IHMP?

 

[Voigt]

One of the many HoI IV MP balance mods.

Steam Workshop::Improved Historical MP

steamcommunity.com

 

[kettyo]

Would need to extract the ai stuff (which is not only in ai_strategy_plans but also in decisions ai_will_do, spy agency stuff, defines and so on), and also tweak it back for vanilla (IHMP for example has a +300% ahead of time malus per year, instead of +200% which changes some research timings) but this is so much work! ^^

For now, if you wanna try, this is the most recent IHMP version, with some more ai changes, which aren't integrated in the workshop version yet (we have a MP ongoing with the mod, only after this is done we are incorparting more changes into the workshop mod):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Tv74c-psixeAdoKxF8G2jvu0-XdTc52w/view?usp=sharing
Always need more testing either way, especially Japan vs AI China would interest me, but also like playing Germany.

Notice that this mod and also the ai changes are mostly supporting MP, meaning my scripts are mostly for ai minors helping in an MP, and most work was done there. The majors also have some scripts, but they are far from as sophisticated.
Also with the limit of 4x3 battalions per divsions instead of 5x5, the ai really struggles the create good tank division templates (6/6 or 3/9) since they are missing the space to work.

Thanks man!

Will give it a look although i'm going for SP.

 

[porta80]

Yes, I remember, always on South Africa... "Porta why aren't your heavies on El Alamein?!"

You know I improved from SA to New Zealand ;-)

 

[Simon_9732495]

Didn't people like Florii on Germany have like 70 panzer divisions in mid-41, all 40w and almost exclusively Medium 2s? On top of that he'd have produced a large amount of fighters but ignored artillery, keeping INF as 20 width rifle divisions (probably with engineers). Or am I totally misremembering this? This was in vanilla MP, back when people still played that.

Possible.
70 40w Divisions is somewhere between 28k and 56k Medium Tanks. (400-800 Tanks per Division).

If you don't go Medium3s and just produce Meidum2s you can produce a huge load of Tanks. You see this in my first posting, in the comparison between producing Medium2 and then Medium3s vs. producing only Light Tank3 all the time.

And in MP you can be stronger as Germany, because you get a lot CIVs from your allies from day 1. It's like starting with a bigger economy.

 

[porta80]

From my try yesterday, also went early on Med 2's date was the 26th june stopped little to late as i wasnt paing attention enough but doesnt matter.

4k ligth tanks
12k med 3
2k med 2
some spaa 3
7,4k fighters
1k cas 1
600 tac 1

but i lost alot of medium and light tanks in france, spain, japan and the balkan i gues atleast 4k medium 2s and 3-5k lights.

I did go historical creating vichy etc.

 

[Voigt]

btw @Simon_9732495 I attached my save from my run answell.
One thing I completly confused was how Vanilla Treaty worked. I was used that I need to research Medium1 manually before I do the treaty, so I have one 100% bonus for Panzer IV, and then with Army Innovation II another 100% Bonus for Panther.

But I think I could have used the Panzer III bonus in any case. ^^
This would have sped up the Panzer research considerably, but wouldn't have changed production numbers much. With 266 Mils there is only so much you can do, and roughly half need to go to Fighters to contest the airspace. With 140 German Mils on Fighters and Italy providing another 100 Mils.
Since you also need to sustain the losses over the Soviet Union over a period of time, and probably also need to either eat damaged factories from Strat. Bombing or moving airplanes back to Europe against Allied Fighters and Bombers.

 

[Fulmen]

And in MP you can be stronger as Germany, because you get a lot CIVs from your allies from day 1. It's like starting with a bigger economy.

The standard in MP is to do tradebacks as the Axis, so Germany doesn't get more civs from his allies early on, maybe even a bit less actually (since you wouldn't trade the factory back in SP).

However, very importantly in MP the entire Axis will be on Free Trade and in general just be a lot more optimal with their economy than the AI would be, leading to a bigger economy for not only Germany, but the entire Axis as a whole. Later once the war has begun, Germany might be getting more IC from his allies than he's giving back; this depends a lot on the players and if they continue tradebacks throughout the war.

 

[Simon_9732495]

The standard in MP is to do tradebacks as the Axis, so Germany doesn't get more civs from his allies early on

What is "standard" ....

I've seen Germany players do things like, telling Bulgaria to licence a battleship and produce it from day 1.
Or the Argument "I can't do tradebacks, that Soviet Union is also getting buffed/is already so strong/my allies are too weak/my aircontroller is a newbie/..."

Extreme numbers might not come out of "standard" games.

 

[Fulmen]

What is "standard" ....

I've seen Germany players do things like, telling Bulgaria to licence a battleship and produce it from day 1.
Or the Argument "I can't do tradebacks, that Soviet Union is also getting buffed/is already so strong/my allies are too weak/my aircontroller is a newbie/..."

Extreme numbers might not come out of "standard" games.

Well strictly speaking from the perspective of what is the most common type of HoI4 game, I suppose the standard would be 2 player games with passwords, the next step after that being all welcome meme games.

The standard I was talking about is your average historical MP game with VOIP, strict rules and vetted players, often regulars from the community, with 2-3k+ hours of HoI4 MP on all the majors and key minors. I don't think those games exist in vanilla anymore, but I think there's a few mod-running servers that fit the bill. They were pretty normal in vanilla a few years ago though.

 

[Secret Master]

Didn't people like Florii on Germany have like 70 panzer divisions in mid-41, all 40w and almost exclusively Medium 2s? On top of that he'd have produced a large amount of fighters but ignored artillery, keeping INF as 20 width rifle divisions (probably with engineers). Or am I totally misremembering this? This was in vanilla MP, back when people still played that.

That sounds reasonable in certain versions of the game. I'm not sure I ever got to quite that level, but I can see it working.

It's worth pointing out to newer players that in earlier versions of HOI4, lack of resources was calculated differently than it is now and oil used to be a resource used to build things, not be refined into fuel. There was a point in the patching/version cycle where you could put 100+ MIC on tanks and as long as you had steel and tungsten, you could skip the oil requirement completely with a mediocre penalty to production on only some of your lines; something similar could be done with rubber and trucks and MECH.

In those earlier MP games, I remember paving the road to Moscow with Portuguese tungsten and concentrated industry on 1941 medium tanks with plenty of production efficiency.

 

[porta80]

That sounds reasonable in certain versions of the game. I'm not sure I ever got to quite that level, but I can see it working.

It's worth pointing out to newer players that in earlier versions of HOI4, lack of resources was calculated differently than it is now and oil used to be a resource used to build things, not be refined into fuel. There was a point in the patching/version cycle where you could put 100+ MIC on tanks and as long as you had steel and tungsten, you could skip the oil requirement completely with a mediocre penalty to production on only some of your lines; something similar could be done with rubber and trucks and MECH.

In those earlier MP games, I remember paving the road to Moscow with Portuguese tungsten and concentrated industry on 1941 medium tanks with plenty of production efficiency.

No to forget the research ahead of time penalties where way less then now.

 

[Secret Master]

No to forget the research ahead of time penalties where way less then now.

Oh, yeah. I almost forgot.

"What's that? I can get full production efficiency on Panther lines before the historical start of Barbarossa by reseraching tanks ahead of time?"

 

[MR2]

Those were the days...

 

[kettyo]

View attachment 602574

Is she maybe Svetlana Alliluyeva?

It's like hey Papa and his cigar-smell friends will be away from home for quite a while now at last, real life begins today!

 

[kettyo]

While compling this numbers I see the INSANE difference in equipment output between a steady production line (3? years Light Tank3) and a production line that was switched (Medium2 -> Medium3). Both with concentrated industry.
In the 1st run the Tanks are worth 375.200 IC (13*8.400+14*19.000).
In the 2nd run the Tanks are worth 620.000 IC (10*62.000).
Almost double output. Wow.

Maybe not only the factory switching but also the fact that for lights you need only steel what you have while for mediums you also need tons of tungsten which you have to import?

 

[Evgenij Marshall]

I hope after the Balkan DLC the Soviets get their Fix Allready!!

 

[qqmagnuz]

What kind of tank templates are you guys using? And so you build light tanks at all?