Equipment fielded (produced) for Operation Barbarossa.

[Simon_9732495]

I was thinking about starting this thread a while ago. Today it popped up in another discusssion, so let's go.

What equiment (that you produced yourself) do you have in stock or fielded as Germany at 22.06.1941? (22.06.1941 = historical start date of operation barbarossa)

(I'd say let's post only Tanks and Planes, as this is the decisive equipment. If you want to post the number of your guns and support equipment as well, feel free to do so.)

I start with 2 examples of myself:

1) Expert AI game, I went for Medium3 Tanks:

Medium Tank 2: 8.400
Medium Tank 3: 19.000
Fighter1: 3.700
Fighter2: 8.900
CAS1: 1.000
TAC1: 500

2) Speedy Light Tanks Meme run from this thread: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/german-light-tank-blitz-idea.1399558/

Light Tank 3: 62.000
Fighter1: 3.700
Fighter2: 7.600
CAS1: 1.500
TAC1: 800


As you can see I build quite a lot of Tanks. What do you build?


P.S.:
While compling this numbers I see the INSANE difference in equipment output between a steady production line (3? years Light Tank3) and a production line that was switched (Medium2 -> Medium3). Both with concentrated industry.
In the 1st run the Tanks are worth 375.200 IC (13*8.400+14*19.000).
In the 2nd run the Tanks are worth 620.000 IC (10*62.000).
Almost double output. Wow.

 

[Voigt]

Somewhat difficult to compare, since it depends on a lot of factors.

Am I playing vanilla or modded. Then what mods, you chose ExpertAI which I would never pick, instead I often use my own AI mod but then there are also MP balance mods.

Then am I preparing for an SP Barbarossa or MP one? A MP one is also very different since I have to fight for real for France possibly. I could also try for the lulz and get the hightest production numbers (without going completly of the rails and capitulating UK)

 

[Bergermeister]

Somewhat difficult to compare, since it depends on a lot of factors.

Am I playing vanilla or modded. Then what mods, you chose ExpertAI which I would never pick, instead I often use my own AI mod but then there are also MP balance mods.

Which AI mod do you use in SP?

 

[Voigt]

Either IHMP directly, or just the extracted ai changes I provided for that mod.
The extraction would be a local copy then.

 

[Simon_9732495]

Somewhat difficult to compare, since it depends on a lot of factors.

Goal of this thread is to see what players are aiming for (how many fighters are enough? How many Tanks?) and what they are able to achieve.

If someone can do the same fighters and a lot more Medium3s I will ask him how. And then I maybe learn something new. (And if he tells me that he plays mod xy where the numbers are different for whatever reason I learned at least something about that mod.)

 

[porta80]

Holy crap thats alot of tanks like 27k and 14k planes, just looked up an old savegame and i was not even next to those numbers.
Had like 7k tanks and 8k planes but 120 14/4 infantry ready.

 

[Eisscrat]

Thouht i was good with 48 tankdivision and 24 motinf/mech but these numbers are insane. Even my "small" army had only 2 month of fuel at barbarossa with all unit rolling. But with so many tanks and airplanes the fuelconsumption must be rediclius.

How you get these numbers? What you dont produce or field?

 

[Simon_9732495]

How you get these numbers? What you dont produce or field?

Here is the complete list of things I produced(*) in the first run:

Medium Tank 2: 8.400
Medium Tank 3: 19.000
Fighter1: 3.700
Fighter2: 8.900
CAS1: 1.000
TAC1: 500
Karabiner 98K (Guns1): 55.000
MP38 (Guns2): 32.300
Support equipment: 12.300
Motorized: 9.600
Artillery1: 1.800
Artillery2: 2.700
( (*)That list includes the equipment you have at game start, e.g. Guns1)

I didn't produce any AA, AT, SPART, CAS2, Light Tanks, Medium Tank 1, Naval Bomber ...

• At the 22.06.1941 I have 289 MILs, 201 CIVs, 28 Docks, 20 Refineries and ~13 Fuel Silos to have 3Mio Fuel in Stock.
• I went early on MILs I think after 1 year, and used concentrated industry.
• Rushed Medium Tanks with Rheinland, Army Innovations, Treaty as start focuses and started producing Medium2s in mid to late 1938.
• At the end I produce 67 Medium3s per day with 150 MILs. (77% efficiency)
• And 25 Fighter2 per day with 100 MILs (77% efficiency)
• Did collaborations on CZE (I like to annex full CZE, it's not optimal, but I dont want the ugly puppet) FRA, POL, HUN and ROM.
• France has now 63% compliance and I get 66 factories from them. 35 from POL, 37 from CZE.
• I annex my Balkan allies because I think that way they help me most. That means I have CZE, POL, NED, BEL, LUX, FRA, DEN, HUN, YUG, BUL, GRE, ROM annexed.
• Barabrossa Army is 32 Divisions of 15/5 Medium Tanks with ENG, ART, MREC, LOG and 144 Infantry Divisions 10/0 with ENG.

Map:

Spoiler: Map

Will the MOD Expert AI make a difference to this?
I buffed all my enemies to max and with that mod it's quite a bit harder. France is taking the focus to reduce capitulation limit and you have to take all of France and not only Paris.
On the other hand trade is a bit easier becuase AI builds Infra on ressources and maybe (Im not sure about that) I will get more factories from conquered countries becuase their buildup was better.
On the other hand you get a lot less equipment when you conquer someone in expert AI.
In my Vanilla runs I think I have similar amounts of equipment. I used this, because I saved on the correct date.

 

[kettyo]

I annex my Balkan allies because I think that way they help me most.

The exact reason why Hitler started Barbarossa in the first place. He thought Stalin can't help him enough on his own

Map

Did you help Italy out here or are they so much better in Expert AI?

Light Tank 3: 62.000

If i've spied on you and seen this i've begged to be your collaborator

 

[Simon_9732495]

Did you help Italy out here or are they so much better in Expert AI?

I did a Afrcia campaign this time. But without Tanks. If Italy is not a player I don't risk transporting Tanks over the Med. I had 36 14/4 Divisions in Africa. 18 East, 18 West.

 

[Voigt]

Picture:

Integrated War Economy, similar how I would do it in MP with player on Romania and Hungary. Still played Vanilla unmodded this time around.
Also went dispersed Industry because of Bombing Defense against a Strat. Bombing USA.

120 10/0 divisions on the Soviet Border, 2x24 10/0 divsions as reserve for encirclments

48 divisions are on ports on the atlantic, another 9 divisions on the french ports of the med.

4 armies of 6 tank divisions (40 Width) along the Soviet border, another 5th army of 6 tank divsions in Paris as Anti-D-Day Army.
Those tank divisions should be 6k MARM and 6k LSPARTY as equipment.

10k Fighter2 on the Field, most of them over Soviet Airspace, another 2k Fighter 1 in reserve.
1,4k CAS2 for Barbarossa, can be used for naval Strikes awell (+5 Range)

Didn't build any new Tac.

I have 147 Civ and 266 Mils. Could have quite a bit more if I annexed the Balkan.. but naah.

140 Mils on Fighter 2 (29 daily production), 15 Mil on CAS2 (3 daily)
50 Mil on MARM3 (11 daily), 20 Mil on LSPARTY3 (9 daily)
10 Mil on Armored Cars for Supression Duty
The rest around Guns, Support Eq, Arty, Mot and so on.

Oil is somewhat a problem with stupid Romania, since right now I have only 10k daily fuel, instead of the expected 16k~18k.

got quite unlucky with collab goverment. For Poland and France each only 2x 30% compliance, for Netherlands also just 30%. For Belgium atleast 45%.

 

[Simon_9732495]

Integrated War Economy, similar how I would do it in MP with player on Romania and Hungary.

Maybe I should also do it this way, because in MP you cant just annex HUN and ROM if they are Players...

Also went dispersed Industry because of Bombing Defense against a Strat. Bombing USA.

I might be better off with Dispersed, if I go for Medium3s. Still not sure on that one.

120 10/0 divisions on the Soviet Border, 2x24 10/0 divsions as reserve for encirclments

Very similiar. I have 120 10/0 on the Front and 24 to guard larger encirclements.

48 divisions are on ports on the atlantic, another 9 divisions on the french ports of the med.

I have 2 2/0 on each tile of the coastline and 4 5/0 on each port on the Atlantic. Thats around 200 Divisions with 700k Manpower. Your 55 Divisions will have 500k Manpower, so also quite similar.

4 armies of 6 tank divisions (40 Width) along the Soviet border, another 5th army of 6 tank divsions in Paris as Anti-D-Day Army.
Those tank divisions should be 6k MARM and 6k LSPARTY as equipment.

Here's the difference. We both have ~30 Tank Divisions but I have a lot more Tanks in them. (750 per Division for a 15/5 Template...)
In MP I'd also leave at least 4 Tanks in France.

10k Fighter2 on the Field, most of them over Soviet Airspace, another 2k Fighter 1 in reserve.
1,4k CAS2 for Barbarossa, can be used for naval Strikes awell (+5 Range)

Didn't build any new Tac.

Also very similar. I built more Fighter 1 with my early MILs.

Oil is somewhat a problem with stupid Romania, since right now I have only 10k daily fuel, instead of the expected 16k~18k.

I get 11k Fuel per day. 10k from 117 Oil and 1k from Refineries.
Of the 117 Oil are (109 (58% compliance, 10 Infra) * 1.2 (Excavation2) * 0,75 (Limited Exports) ) = 98 from Romania.
How do you get 16k per day?

got quite unlucky with collab goverment. For Poland and France each only 2x 30% compliance, for Netherlands also just 30%. For Belgium atleast 45%.

How can you do 6 collaboration government missions before Benelux? Do you take Canaris?

I got lucky. 4 of 5 gave me 45%.

 

[Voigt]

I have 216 LSPARTY and 200 MARM per Tank division (7 Mot, 6 LSPARTY, 4 MARM). With that I have 500 Soft Attack, decent enough Breaktrough and Hard Attack, and enough Armour that normal Infantry won't pierce but dedicated Soviet AT divsions in MP will pierce either way.

With a player or improved script Romania they can extract much more Oil which you can import and with 1941 Oil Refinary you get very good fuel out of that imported oil. In worst case Romania can lend lease the fuel they get from the 20% oil they still have on Free Trade.

I attacked Poland quite early, first half of 1939.

I did Rhineland->4Y Plan Industry path down.

I did Borman->Canarais->Schacht->Krupp->Guderian->War Economy for my first PP spendings, so yeah an early Schacht to get 3 operatives and later invited Italy and became Spymaster for my 4th.

Also I have decryped UK and Sovietunion, and a nice spanning Spynetwork on Soviet Union.

 

[SophieX]

Light Tank 3: 62.000
Fighter1: 3.700
Fighter2: 7.600
CAS1: 1.500
TAC1: 800

Those numbers are "equal" to my last Barbarossa-start ( sadly I have no save-game to repeat the exact values )
~60.000 Light Tanks/SpArt
~8.000 Fighters 1+2
~ 2.500 CAS 1 ( all ground-attacking the 2 break-through provinces, one in the north and one in the south. )

Like in other campaigns I saw, that AI couldn't deal with "high" speed.

 

[Hemothep]

I was thinking about starting this thread a while ago. Today it popped up in another discusssion, so let's go.

What equiment (that you produced yourself) do you have in stock or fielded as Germany at 22.06.1941? (22.06.1941 = historical start date of operation barbarossa)

(I'd say let's post only Tanks and Planes, as this is the decisive equipment. If you want to post the number of your guns and support equipment as well, feel free to do so.)

I start with 2 examples of myself:

1) Expert AI game, I went for Medium3 Tanks:

Medium Tank 2: 8.400
Medium Tank 3: 19.000
Fighter1: 3.700
Fighter2: 8.900
CAS1: 1.000
TAC1: 500

2) Speedy Light Tanks Meme run from this thread: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/german-light-tank-blitz-idea.1399558/

Light Tank 3: 62.000
Fighter1: 3.700
Fighter2: 7.600
CAS1: 1.500
TAC1: 800


As you can see I build quite a lot of Tanks. What do you build?


P.S.:
While compling this numbers I see the INSANE difference in equipment output between a steady production line (3? years Light Tank3) and a production line that was switched (Medium2 -> Medium3). Both with concentrated industry.
In the 1st run the Tanks are worth 375.200 IC (13*8.400+14*19.000).
In the 2nd run the Tanks are worth 620.000 IC (10*62.000).
Almost double output. Wow.

How do you get so many medium3s?
I usualy start with Army Innovations/Soviet Treaty and get Henschel early (I oppose Hitler every time, so no Rheinland), but even with this route I unlock medium3s in February 1940. How do you speed this up further?

 

[Fulmen]

Holy crap thats alot of tanks like 27k and 14k planes, just looked up an old savegame and i was not even next to those numbers.
Had like 7k tanks and 8k planes but 120 14/4 infantry ready.

Didn't people like Florii on Germany have like 70 panzer divisions in mid-41, all 40w and almost exclusively Medium 2s? On top of that he'd have produced a large amount of fighters but ignored artillery, keeping INF as 20 width rifle divisions (probably with engineers). Or am I totally misremembering this? This was in vanilla MP, back when people still played that.

 

[porta80]

Didn't people like Florii on Germany have like 70 panzer divisions in mid-41, all 40w and almost exclusively Medium 2s? On top of that he'd have produced a large amount of fighters but ignored artillery, keeping INF as 20 width rifle divisions (probably with engineers). Or am I totally misremembering this? This was in vanilla MP, back when people still played that.

Don't know anymore, but I mostly play allied minors in MP so hardly have to much contact with German tanks ;-)
I really suck at microing to much for playing majors in serious MP games, only sometimes in no rules who gives a... games ;-)

 

[kettyo]

Either IHMP directly, or just the extracted ai changes I provided for that mod.
The extraction would be a local copy then.

Could you maybe upload your AI enhancements separately?

Then i'd compare Vanilla / Expert AI / IHMP / Your AI to see which one i like best

Thanks in advance.

 

[Voigt]

Would need to extract the ai stuff (which is not only in ai_strategy_plans but also in decisions ai_will_do, spy agency stuff, defines and so on), and also tweak it back for vanilla (IHMP for example has a +300% ahead of time malus per year, instead of +200% which changes some research timings) but this is so much work! ^^

For now, if you wanna try, this is the most recent IHMP version, with some more ai changes, which aren't integrated in the workshop version yet (we have a MP ongoing with the mod, only after this is done we are incorparting more changes into the workshop mod):

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Tv74c-psixeAdoKxF8G2jvu0-XdTc52w/view?usp=sharing

Always need more testing either way, especially Japan vs AI China would interest me, but also like playing Germany.

Notice that this mod and also the ai changes are mostly supporting MP, meaning my scripts are mostly for ai minors helping in an MP, and most work was done there. The majors also have some scripts, but they are far from as sophisticated.
Also with the limit of 4x3 battalions per divsions instead of 5x5, the ai really struggles the create good tank division templates (6/6 or 3/9) since they are missing the space to work.

 

[Fulmen]

Don't know anymore, but I mostly play allied minors in MP so hardly have to much contact with German tanks ;-)

Yes, I remember, always on South Africa... "Porta why aren't your heavies on El Alamein?!"