EPP speach

[jacob-Lundgren]

My fellow citizens! We are nearing election time once more and many of you are wondering who to vote for. With so many parties abound who to vote, will your vote matter with so many choices? Well a good choice would be for the Eutopian Progressive party. Founded by 2 experienced politicians we have big plans and ideas for the country. A big goal of mine is to win speakership next term and revitalize the National assembly(parliament). Things have degraded there very much, going so far as to bring the possibility of arresting the current speaker for violating the constitution! The left had their shot at running legislation this past term and has bombed out bigtime. Having the ability to pass almost any law they could think of very little has been passed let alone laws with much benefit for the nation. they have done nothing for the economy or to aid in solving the crisis that have struck the nation.

With the center almost collapsed people are most likely stuck with a left coalition or a right-monarchist coalition. Well there is still some hope. People wont have to choose a coalition on the outskirts of politics if they belive that by voting for the EPP they can bring relief to the center. The mp is most alligned and best positioned to bring a stability to the executive branch, for who else but them, or the center right EPP would appoint people properly for the minster posts instead of solely picking from their party, people who only have their beliefs and agenda in heart but not the country. The national assembly must not be led by a fringe group or we will see continued slow passing of bills with little benefit for EUtopia, or worse the people might be forced to watch as people they didnt vote for change the constitution and put forth many radical bills. Voting on a more centrist party is the only gurantee of having the national assembly members cooperate to achive and work for the nation. Voting the main, radical thinking right or far left will alientate the mass people.

The rd would have you belive they are centrist leaning from the left, well thats just not true. Where were they when the MP needing them? needlessly arguing internal party politics they couldnt put postpone for the good of the country. Where were they as the socialists passed they wacky bills? supporting those bills getting passed and not even forcing the speaker to properly debate bills. What has the RD been doing recently? trying to solidify the left in a bid for power completly ignoring any centrist thinking is where.

So when you go to the voting booths, think a little more, use some commen sense and dont let the radical elements of either side win. Else we just might the heart out of our beloved democracy.

 

[I Killed Kenny]

oh... great the first speach is just a bunch of attacks and critics... not anything constructive... exaclly what I would wait...

Please do something good

 

[unmerged(1522)]

I fully agree with Mr. Lundgren that people should pay attention to common sense. Common sense will tell them that, despite Mr. Lundgren's assertions to the contrary, the "Centre" in Eutopia is alive and well. Common sense will tell voters that, no matter what Mr. Lundgren's opinion may be, the RD is centre-Left in any rational definition of the term. Of course, those who think anyone left of Attila the Hun is a raving commie will disagree. I'm confident Mr. Lundgren is not actually one of those right-wing hysterics.

Common sense will further tell people that Mr. Lundgren's accusation that the RD has failed to assist the MP in times of need is ludicrous and hypocritical; it's ludicrous because one, the RD has been supportive of the coalition these entire past two terms (no matter how difficult it was at times), two, because it is not our job to defend another party, and three, because the MP is more than capable of doing so on its own. It's hypocritical because the EPP itself hasn't exactly come out with guns a-blazin' to defend the MP.

Common sense will tell voters that Mr. Borgman has in actual fact presided over the National Assembly for much of the last two terms, thanks to the inactivity of two successive Speakers from the EPP, and has done a commendable job in that position most of the time - although I also agree that Mr. Borgman is currently approaching the very limits of what's constitutionally acceptable.

Common sense will tell voters that, if the National Assembly has "bombed" this term, the EPP has to share a good deal of the blame for that. Common sense will tell people that the EPP has been a de facto part of the CPR, a fact that party seems to conveniently forget. Common sense will also tell people that the EPP is trying to deny its own part in the developments it describes as problematic - a pattern characteristic of its leading members in the past, so this comes as no surprise.

Finally, common sense will tell people that the EPP's empty posturing is fruitless, and that the "Progressives" should focus their energies on something more constructive.

-- P.N.H. Schwarzerd

 

[jacob-Lundgren]

EPP has a good deal to do with the national assembly bombing? what you smoking sir? we dont even have a member in the national assembly, and we have been a little busy cleaning up messes we shouldnt have to clean up because the left has been a roadblock to a successful anti-terrorist bill.

commendable job is a laughing joke. he is not responding to the constitution and wont give people time to properly debate bills that is hardly a good thing. i have personaly tried to help the MP you must have been on a differently island during that time. I have offered advice i have worked strongly with them and you sir are a fool or an idiot to think otherwise.

and the only thing the rd has been supportive of this term is its own petty selfishness. during a national crisis its only efforts were devotied to voting which member of the rd thought he was the best. i use to enjoy working with people like you but you have lost something the past couple of terms. you are not what you used to be.

and the EPP is not denieing its involvment. the EPP acted very strongly to catch a dangerous mass murdered who attacked YOUR OWN HQ! or have you forgotten that so soon? i personaly went to the hospital and deployed a HUGE force of police to guard your injured member which apperently you also have forgotten.

and commen sense tells you that when you have an ally in trouble under baseless criticism that you should offer a kind word to show such ally you have not abandon them.

and the EPP isnt even a standing part of the cpr sir. you must have forgotten to take your meds this morning. if you are going to criticism me go for it i am here standing but you seem to have missed the target once more.

 

[unmerged(1522)]

Sir,

I do realize that your lack of reasonable arguments forces you to resort to personal invectives. But for the love of chocolate: invest some imagination into them! Get Langley to help you out if you can't do it yourself. *shakes head*

Now, as to the few interesting points you raise in between your attempts at insults. You claim the National Assembly has "bombed." That is as popular a claim these days as it is a facile one, but for the sake of argument, let's run with it. You say that the EPP bears no blame for this because it does not have an MNA. Was the EPP not founded by Mr. Langley? The Mr. Langley who was elected to the position of Speaker at the beginning of this term? The same Mr. Langley who painted a glowing picture of the excellent job he would do? The Mr. Langley whose inactivity then forced Mr. Borgman to take over as Speaker, resulting in the current situation? Which, by the way, does not represent a breach of the constitution yet, even though it's getting uncomfortably close (as I said already).

You claim that "the Left" has been a roadblock to anti-terrorist legislation. Tell me, out of curiosity: were the leading members of your party not part of the CC before they broke away to form the EPP? The same CC which was part of the CPR for one and a half terms? *The* CC that had more than enough time to put forth reasonable legislation on any matter it chose and try to work out a consensus on the issue? And are you not the current Minister of law enforcement, and thus in an excellent position to launch anti-terrorist legislation? I do not wish to overtax your selective memory, but once again, you'd do well to remember that any failure the EPP attributes to the CPR is a failure of theirs as well.

You claim that the EPP is not denying its responsibility for the problems you identify, and yet your whole response is nothing but a series of denials and attempts to blame the Left for those problems, while the EPP apparently is as innocent as snow. Oh, to be fair, you *do* claim responsibility for those actions you perceive to be positive. Well, hurray for you.

Finally, you claim you are a vigorous defender of the MP. Ah, yes: I well remember that fiery speech in praise of O'Floinn you gave last month when... Oh, wait - I don't. Which is rather my point. Or one of them, as you seem to have missed some of the others I made.

With a friendly wink,
P.N.H. Schwarzerd

i personaly went to the hospital and deployed a HUGE force of police to guard your injured member [...]

[OOC: Err - you're absolutely *sure* you don't want to rephrase that a bit? I had a really tough time resisting a snarky comeback here. ]

 

[jacob-Lundgren]

(uhh mel i did go to the hospital to visit ikk. look it up. he was very properly guarded)

You are right the CC didnt follow up anti-terror legislation this term. did you stop to think thats one of the reasons i left?

And langley did disappear for a little while. why we dont know. i meen jeez for all its worth he might even have gone overseas because a good friend died we dont know.

And the very paper i own wrote an article about a week ok in defense of the MP. again read the facts you must catch up on things.

(uhh mel when i tried the same thing last time i was speaker you said it would be a breach of the constitution. so its not a breach if a left member does it??? )

 

[unmerged(1522)]

Sir,

you imply that the CC's failure to put forward anti-terror legislation was one of the reasons you left that party. Forgive my suprise, but if that topic is so near and dear to your heart, you of all people had every opportunity to pursue it and place it on the legislative agenda. You want to assign blame to people for failing to pass anti-terror legislation? Don't forget to leave some for yourself.

And just to clarify one thing: I'm not objecting to Mr. Langley's protracted absence from the National Assembly; I'm sure he had his reasons. What I'm objecting to is the transparent attempt on your part to claim that the EPP bears no responsibility for the current state of the legislature - a state you seem to think is deplorable.

You claim your paper defended the MP in a recent article. Apart from the fact that nobody ever reads that paper, I was unable to verify that claim. A perusal of your paper's recent editions will turn up the following: an article confirming that you left the CC, a blurb on vacations of public officials, a brief speculation on the emergence of new coalitions and the weakening of the Left and Centre, a short passage on the (putative) fragmentation of the party system, the usual lengthy anti-Left diatribe (apparently, the Left's "weakened" state does not prevent it from "running away" with the legislature), and an article proclaiming the death of the centre in which the MP is being described as having been "blindsided" in the National Assembly and as the "whipping boy" of the CPR. If any of those constitute a vigorous defense of the MP, it must be in secret code.

-- P.N.H. Schwarzerd


[OOC:

Originally posted by jacob-Lundgren
(uhh mel i did go to the hospital to visit ikk. look it up. he was very properly guarded)

Uhh JL, methinks you're missing the point. Think about it. ]

uhh mel when i tried the same thing last time i was speaker you said it would be a breach of the constitution. so its not a breach if a left member does it???

The only past case I can remember off the cuff was the attempt to ram through some legislation well below the time requirement set by the rules, which is different from the current situation. But more to the point, Bramarius will be in breach of the constitution *if* he refuses to put the Airport bill to a vote within a reasonable time; otherwise, he won't be. Simple as that.

And on a different note: Schwarzerd isn't "Mel." It may be helpful to keep that in mind when reading any of Schwarzerd's statements. ]

 

[jacob-Lundgren]

(((that bit to mel was to mel. last time i tried that and you jumped all over me ooc

and i dont think i am missing the point. i did my job as i was supposed to do it and you say i shouldnt have? if i am in charge of police and ANYONE is attacked i will defend them. sorry you think i shouldnt have )))

actualy i tried to bring up anti-terror legislation. sadly i hadnt enough support especialy as people were brining up fluff bills and supporting each other in forcing us to vote no on some useless bills.

according to last reports we have quite a good circulation of our paper. sorry you dont get it, here have a free subscription.

 

[unmerged(1522)]

Sir,

you say there wasn't enough support for an anti-terror bill. I doubt that; however, it may well be the case that there wasn't enough support for a *specific* anti-terror bill, in which case you had a choice to build support for the bill in question or revise it in ways that do find majority support. Do not blame others for the choices you did or did not make.

Sincerely,
P.N.H. Schwarzerd


[OOC:

Originally posted by jacob-Lundgren
that bit to mel was to mel.

I understand that it was addressed to me. What I'm saying is that "Mel" hadn't taken a position on any of the issues we're discussing; Schwarzerd had. Based on your posts, I got the impression it couldn't hurt to emphasize the distinction.

last time i tried that and you jumped all over me ooc

and i dont think i am missing the point. i did my job as i was supposed to do it and you say i shouldnt have?

Err - you may want to re-read my statement on the IKK-issue. It has nothing to do with the way you handled your job IC, and everything to do with an unfortunate choice of words on your part... ]

 

[jacob-Lundgren]

actualy i tried for an anti-terror bill. the esrp was totaly against it and elements of your party and the mp recomended we form a commission first. and after a while we managed to get that started but still never got a bill through parliament this session. cant help but think how many lives might have been saved that violent day...

but my record stands. i know i am right for the position of speaker and desire to lend my talents towards getting what must be done, done. As MILE i did the dirty job of sending people to their deaths to save others, tragicly as had to happen. I am more then willing to work with people for the benefit of EUtopia, if i werent for cooperation how else have i managed to fit into every government we have had since democracy started? The rd has had its role and time but what new does it have to contribute. where are its promises of a better day? i am sure they are there and you have a plan and I would enjoy seeing it, as there are most likely good things about it. no 1 view is best for EUtopia but only the center is able to bring the neccessary coaliton to have both the (right and left)-(non radical), to bring their ideas into the mix. and if the RD proclaims to be a center leaning left party, then here, now pledge support to who the MP chooses for their presidential candidate. If they can win over the monarchists/radical right presidential candidate we can work together to do what must be done no matter how hard it is to do, as things are never easy but what must be must be, and we MUST fix the economy and combat terror. they are the biggest challenges of the near future and must be handled now or the near future will not be a bright one.

dont wait to ask what your party will get out of it, do it for your country and the people and workers you represent. do it for the future and our children. join with me to support the mp now before the dark closes in. if we work together now and fast we can do now, what in the future would take much longer and more work to fix, as we can prevent it from happening by close cooperation and doing whats right for the nation.


(well people were talking about ideas for coalitions and here is one out in the open publicaly no secret deals with the 2 parties of 3 who would have more to argue about and less to agree about)

 

[unmerged(1522)]

Mr. Lundgren,

you declare you are "right" for the position of Speaker, claim that an MP-candidate would be the natural choice for President - and then demand that the RD join you and the MP without asking what it would "get out of it"? Allow me a moment to digest that.

Also allow me a moment to digest the fact that you do your level best to insult the RD, and then turn around the next moment expecting us to fully cooperate with you. Nice way to lay the groundwork for a trusting relationship.

Be that as it may: your suggestion will be taken to the RD-membership for review, despite your rather "unique" approach to party "diplomacy." Whether RD-members agree with your claim that the coalition you propose would be in the best interest of Eutopians will, of course, be for them to decide.

Sincerely,
P.N.H. Schwarzerd

 

[jacob-Lundgren]

There was no demand involved. There is no gurantee we get anything out of an alliance either. But if the left runs without any center or right support it is guranteed they wont have president or speaker. You may not like how i got you here but your here talking now in front of the whole nation with nothing to hide. It is a simple truth if the left shuns the center there will be a monarchist or radical right president. and with it the entire executive brance with no one from the left. Commen sense says the left benefits more from working with the Center then working alone and letting the noncenter-right and monarchists win. They surely wouldnt support a left candidate for anything now would they? Now i could be wrong and the left alone could sneak off winning the president. But if by doing so they burned all desire to cooperate with the center you would be in for one lonely term with more National assembly members against you, then with you.

 

[unmerged(1522)]

Mr. Lundgren,

I have no poblem with "how you got us here" - if by "here" you mean public talks about the possibility of cooperation. What I *do* have a problem with is, as I said before, your "unique" style of party diplomacy - i.e. your attempt to entice another party towards cooperation by attacking it first. If the EPP is serious about cooperation, I can only hope that Mr. Langley will demonstrate greater skill in these matters.

You say you haven't made any "demands" for posts. To my mind, this is disingenuous: you declared that you would be "right" for the post of Speaker, and described an MP-candidate as the natural choice for President. This may not amount to outright demands, but the message is clear nonetheless. So, in the same spirit of not making demands, let me say that the RD has several members who would be a good choice for President or Speaker.

You claim that if the Left "shuns" the Centre, this will result in a right-wing or Monarchist President. We could make the same argument about the Centre and Centre-Right shunning the Left and Centre-Left, but instead, I suggest that you consider the implications of the current electoral system. Do you seriously think Leftists would choose Monarchists or right-wing candidates as their second or even third option? There will be no Monarchist President, unless the Right and Centre-Right vote for him/her.

-- P.N.H. Schwarzerd

 

[jacob-Lundgren]

First off, as noted in the closing of my earlier comments there is a fair chance of a RD-ESRP president winning, but its no way a gurantee since if you get no votes from the MP, EPP and their supporters even if they dont vote for the CC/CRE candidate you are still needing many votes. And if you can scrounge up those votes you can sneak off president but with a distinct minority in the National assembly and fewer skilled people for minister positions by ignoring the center and center right, which i am sure you know about.

And if you count opinion as demands then well, cant argue that particular view but with more expereince as speaker then any other mp rd or epp member and with more government expereince then almost anyone it seems natural to me that should i make it to the national assembly that i am a contender for the job. As far as MP president? well its better from a balance viewpoint and gains any coalition, incumbent status. Should the MP not desire to field a candidate, or in particular the current president has zero desire to run of course its worth considering a RD candidate, in those circumstances.

 

[Craig Ashley]

Mr. Schwarzerd, as usual you have skillfully deflect criticism of yoru party by turning around and attacking another party. Here are the indisputable facts.

Fact: The EPP is NOT a member of the CPR, de facto or otherwise. In fact, for your information we were approached about joining the CPR shortly after our party was formed and we politely declined. Minister Lundgren has participated in certain CPR discussions, but only in his role as MILE, which he offered to resign from once the CC left the CPR and he left the CC, but President O'Floinn requested he stay on.

Fact: The second term of the CPR has been a disappointment to say the least. I do shoulder some of the blame for this personally. Business of a personal nature forced me to take an extended leave of absence. While I was gone, the Anti-Terror commission floundered, Bram Borgman took over the speakership and has stalled important legislation he personally opposes, the CC fell under the sway of Adam Julseau and pulled out of the CPR, the MP suffered continual attacks from the CC, ESRP, and CRE. Very few voices from the left and the moderate right spoke in their defense. In part because some of the MP's damage was self inflicted.

Fact: I take responsibility for my role, or lack thereof, in the failure of this term's government. Does the RD do the same? The RD until recently, has fallen into apathy and disarray. They have sat idly by while Borgman defies the constitution, while the MP and President O'Floinn along with Jack Teano and Mr. Lundgren are attacked for enforcing the law, while a terror spree rampaged across our homeland. I wasn't here. Hell, I didn't even have a political party once the CC pulled out. What is the RD's excuse?

Fact: There was some good that came from the CPR. When the left, center, and right did work together, we did get some results. I applaud your efforts to revitalize the left. Depending on the final outcome of your convention, the EPP may be interested in cooperating with the RD on certain levels. However, until the left has a solid platform, I feel any talks of coalitions would be premature.

Thank you

- Jake Langley, Eutopian Progressive Party Chairman