Epirus into Magna Graecia is still possible in 2.0

[Logist]

You really just have to rush through the initial tree, but you can complete it by around December, 452, letting you go immediately in the Alexandrine Ambition tree, I think it's called. I had to restart twice and it's a bit of a challenge, but definitely still fun and very doable.

Having a real blast with 2.0! Thanks to the whole team.

 

[Decius]

You really just have to rush through the initial tree, but you can complete it by around December, 452, letting you go immediately in the Alexandrine Ambition tree, I think it's called. I had to restart twice and it's a bit of a challenge, but definitely still fun and very doable.

Having a real blast with 2.0! Thanks to the whole team.


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I guess Epirus needs a slight buff, so it has more of it's historical power at least if played by a somewhat decent player and also that it doesn't get rushed by the small nations arount it like I've already saw quite a couple of times. Same might apply for Syracuse.

 

[Logist]

I guess Epirus needs a slight buff, so it has more of it's historical power at least if played by a somewhat decent player and also that it doesn't get rushed by the small nations arount it like I've already saw quite a couple of times. Same might apply for Syracuse.

It definitely doesn't feel like Epirus is at its historical power. I was able to field about 5,000 men (3,000 Legion, 2,000 Levy), while Rome by itself had ~20,000, in addition to it's subjects. If Epirus could field an army of about 10,000 I think you could pose a real threat and actually win a few set piece battles instead of having to just rush Rome and Capua. If anything, I think the problem is more that Rome is overpowered early in the game. I like the late game mega-Rome and love that they've become an end game boss like Maurya in India, but in the early Italian wars they just steam roll, in a way that doesn't seem historically accurate.

I wonder if redistributing some of their population to other Italian states might weaken them in the early game a bit but leave them just as strong later.

 

[Arthrodira]

Epirus needs a huge buff right now. They always seem to get conquered pretty early on when played by the ai. Never seen them actually threaten Rome as an ai, when one would think this should be the norm and something a Roman player should worry about early game

 

[Zhetone]

Epirus needs a huge buff right now. They always seem to get conquered pretty early on when played by the ai. Never seen them actually threaten Rome as an ai, when one would think this should be the norm and something a Roman player should worry about early game

epirus being an 'early boss' would be a nice change because Rome is just straightforward and boring as-is. in my Rome game conquering Epirus (an Epirus which had expanded a fair amount in Greece, by the way) was just a cakewalk and took no effort at all

 

[MohawkWolfo98]

You really just have to rush through the initial tree, but you can complete it by around December, 452, letting you go immediately in the Alexandrine Ambition tree, I think it's called. I had to restart twice and it's a bit of a challenge, but definitely still fun and very doable.

Having a real blast with 2.0! Thanks to the whole team.


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Nice! Can you tell us your strategy? How did you rush the initial tree without any gold?

 

[Rabid]

Well done OP!

IRL Epirus did a lot of fighting but never actually managed to win any long term concessions from anyone so it's important to not make them so strong that they consistently stand up to major powers such as Macedon and Rome long term.

However even before 2.0 they were frequently annexed by a random coalition of their neighbours and this still appears to be a common occurrence so they could definitely use a bit more strength on day 1.

 

[aqvamare]

You really just have to rush through the initial tree, but you can complete it by around December, 452, letting you go immediately in the Alexandrine Ambition tree, I think it's called. I had to restart twice and it's a bit of a challenge, but definitely still fun and very doable.

Having a real blast with 2.0! Thanks to the whole team.


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Why do you play like a AI?

The AI needs the mission tree for conquest,you as human simply us 20PP, claim the country directly next to you in Italy.
Land and conquer it, block this way the Roman mission tree to get claims on Greek Epirus.

Now finish your normal missions, and do magna Garcia a little later.

Rome AI is so easy to defeat, even blobbed, thanks to the delete fort behaviour.

 

[aqvamare]

It definitely doesn't feel like Epirus is at its historical power. I was able to field about 5,000 men (3,000 Legion, 2,000 Levy), while Rome by itself had ~20,000, in addition to it's subjects. If Epirus could field an army of about 10,000 I think you could pose a real threat and actually win a few set piece battles instead of having to just rush Rome and Capua. If anything, I think the problem is more that Rome is overpowered early in the game. I like the late game mega-Rome and love that they've become an end game boss like Maurya in India, but in the early Italian wars they just steam roll, in a way that doesn't seem historically accurate.

I wonder if redistributing some of their population to other Italian states might weaken them in the early game a bit but leave them just as strong later.

I conquered Rome as syracus in a chain war from day 1 with my 4k starting levy, so 5k Epirus levy is 1k stronger.

 

[aqvamare]

Nice! Can you tell us your strategy? How did you rush the initial tree without any gold?

DOW Macedonia, plunder there towns for money, dogde there doom stack, let Antigonids win the battle.

Done this with 4k starting levy as Sparta, taken Corinth and Macedon capital in peace deal, and plunder hundreds of ducats in the war.

 

[EU3NOOB]

in a way that doesn't seem historically accurate.

It is though. Within a few decades of game start Rome united Italy historically.

 

[Logist]

It is though. Within a few decades of game start Rome united Italy historically.

Well it is and it isn't. Rome certainly didn't conquer all of Magna Graecia in the first decade of game start, which they are doing routinely now, and I don't think they realistically had the kind of massive superiority over Epirus and the surrounding Greek and Italian states that they do at the game start. Obviously we're getting into a topic where game balance is more important than strict historicity, but I think there's an argument from both for toning down early game Rome a bit.

Why do you play like a AI?

Cause im a n00b

 

[Ivashanko]

It definitely doesn't feel like Epirus is at its historical power. I was able to field about 5,000 men (3,000 Legion, 2,000 Levy), while Rome by itself had ~20,000, in addition to it's subjects. If Epirus could field an army of about 10,000 I think you could pose a real threat and actually win a few set piece battles instead of having to just rush Rome and Capua. If anything, I think the problem is more that Rome is overpowered early in the game. I like the late game mega-Rome and love that they've become an end game boss like Maurya in India, but in the early Italian wars they just steam roll, in a way that doesn't seem historically accurate.

I wonder if redistributing some of their population to other Italian states might weaken them in the early game a bit but leave them just as strong later.

The problem might be that if Rome isn't overpowered at the start they cannot become the end-game final boss.

 

[Galaahd]

You really just have to rush through the initial tree, but you can complete it by around December, 452, letting you go immediately in the Alexandrine Ambition tree, I think it's called. I had to restart twice and it's a bit of a challenge, but definitely still fun and very doable.

Having a real blast with 2.0! Thanks to the whole team.


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Nice!

I've been struggling playing as Pyrrhus / Epirus. Do you have suggestions? What was your strategy?

Also, what is the fastest way to go through the first mission tree?

 

[Logist]

I've been struggling playing as Pyrrhus / Epirus. Do you have suggestions? What was your strategy?

Also, what is the fastest way to go through the first mission tree?

Rome starts an initial war with Samnium which you'll just miss out on, but which isn't a big deal. My plan was to be in Italy for the major war they tend to fight with lots of sourthern Italy around 453.

You only need "Settled Crown Disputes" to finish the tree, which you'll be able to select after the relevant Molossian event pops in May of 452. I selected "A Royal Wedding" immediately, and then spent the next two years going down the leftmost Corcyra branch to get them as a feudatory. You should be ready to hit "Settled Crown Disputes" sometime in 452, allowing you to finish the tree by early 453 at the latest.

I ended up building Heavy Infantry in my legion and using inventions to get army discipline but I think that was a mistake. You're simply not going to be able to stand up to Rome in a fight, and even sniping smaller armies is tricky in the small geographical area you're fighting in. I think you'd be better off saving your money and just building up your numbers with LI. One thing you do need is around 6 liburnians to transport your army efficiently.

You basically need to hit Italy in 453 after Rome gets involved in it's second big war. The Magna Graecia tree will give you a feudatory and an ally or two, so when you declare Rome can end up fighting almost everyone in Southern and mid Italy, if you get lucky. I also allied Syracuse, who didn't do much but YMMV. Honestly transporting your army is one of the trickier parts. There is a roving pirate fleet you have to dodge, and you shouldn't actually declare until you have your army in Italy, otherwise Rome will snipe it with their fleet. Land in a feudatory the Magna Graecia tree usually gives you in southern Italy. I think I used Tarentum.

At that point, everyone fighting Rome is just a distraction for them. I immediately snuck my army to Rome, assaulted the fort and then took Capua (the war goal), which let me almost fully annex them. I would then immediately integrate Roman culture and try to move your capital to Magna Graecia/Italia ASAP because your military and political situation is actually still fairly precarious.

Again, I only pulled it off on my 3rd try, so it is very RNG dependent. I'm also sure this can be optimized and improved on by better players. I'm very much a mid tier player. But it is definitely still possible to take down Rome early.

 

[Logist]

The problem might be that if Rome isn't overpowered at the start they cannot become the end-game final boss.

I completely agree, and I'd much rather have a stupid strong early game Rome if it means we often get a powerful, end game Rome. I think one of the best parts of 2.0 is the new AI and the way it manages to build powerful, plausible late game empires that can still pose a challenge. EU4 still almost never does that. I think it's a hige step for Paradox generally.

 

[lemonsquid]

I feel like Syracuse is an easier Magna Gracia creator. mostly becaue siciliy is more isolated and carthage ai is stupid so you can just take their stuff early on

 

[stratigo]

I completely agree, and I'd much rather have a stupid strong early game Rome if it means we often get a powerful, end game Rome. I think one of the best parts of 2.0 is the new AI and the way it manages to build powerful, plausible late game empires that can still pose a challenge. EU4 still almost never does that. I think it's a hige step for Paradox generally.

I don't like how there's never a moment of weakness.

Rome is a lot more immune to civil war and revolt than it was historically, which makes it hard to do anything but counter map paint to prep for wars that will be entirely inconclusive before the game ends.

 

[Jarolleon]

epirus being an 'early boss' would be a nice change because Rome is just straightforward and boring as-is. in my Rome game conquering Epirus (an Epirus which had expanded a fair amount in Greece, by the way) was just a cakewalk and took no effort at all

In my Rome games Epirus is Korkyra by the time I take it.

 

[EU3NOOB]

Well it is and it isn't. Rome certainly didn't conquer all of Magna Graecia in the first decade of game start, which they are doing routinely now, and I don't think they realistically had the kind of massive superiority over Epirus and the surrounding Greek and Italian states that they do at the game start. Obviously we're getting into a topic where game balance is more important than strict historicity, but I think there's an argument from both for toning down early game Rome a bit.

I think it's less to do with Rome being ahistorically strong and needing to be nerfed and more to do with the fact that the surrounding states are ahistorically weak.