Epirus in the 1444 start

[Fay]

Hi,

so something that's been bugging me a little for a while is that Epirus is in fact not an independent state at the start of 1444. Even though the Ottomans had conquered a small part of the despotate around 1430 (the city of Ionnina and its surrounding region), the majority of the country hadn't been absorbed into the Turkish realm until 1479.

 

[.Me]

I agree, in 1444 Epirus was under the reign of Carlo Tocco, and from him the Ottoman sanjak of southern Epirus would take the name of "Karli-Eli"

 

[Mattius]

Yeah... Epirus 1444.

 

[Me_]

Definitely a justified request. The core already exists, it's just a matter of changing ownership.

 

[.Me]

Some informations:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Despotate_of_Epirus#Tocco_dynasty

My only fear It would be a weakening of the ottomans, but I think that would be sufficient increase the development of the provinces of Anatolia.

 

[Me_]

Some informations:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Despotate_of_Epirus#Tocco_dynasty

My only fear It would be a weakening of the ottomans, but I think that would be sufficient increase the development of the provinces of Anatolia.

I wouldn't worry about it. Epirus isn't valuable enough for its loss to cause Ottomans any issues. If anything, it could help make Ottoman-Venetian conflicts less one-sided as Epirus would be a small hurdle between Ottomans and Corfu.

 

[Fay]

The Ottomans are easily one of the strongest starts, if not THE strongest, in 1444. And as mentioned, Epirus is nowhere near enough of a loss to the Ottomans' strength to cause a problem - it's doubtful that if the Ottomans wanted to take Epirus, they'd have a big problem doing it either. You could even introduce a mission for them to take it, something like "Complete the Epirean conquest" and as flavour text have it say something among the lines of "We already took the city of Ionnina from the despotate, now it is time to remove it from the map."

The interesting part however is that it could create a new dynamic on the Balkans, as it would make the Western coast of it connected by Christian countries, instead of Albania and the Greek starters being cut off by the Ottomans.

 

[Me_]

Plus, there's the fact that Epirus' culture is Greek, so there would be one starting nation that could form Greece and would use the upcoming Greek Idea Group.

 

[Grand Historian]

Definitely a justified request. The core already exists, it's just a matter of changing ownership.

Better yet, it's a more apt excuse to expand the Balkans even more (cut Epirus in two; Epirus in the north, which had been conquered by the Turks, and Aetolia in the south, which was independent).

Plus, there's the fact that Epirus' culture is Greek, so there would be one starting nation that could form Greece and would use the upcoming Greek Idea Group.

It should probably have it's own idea group instead, like Morea. Epirus was never famous for it's navy, but it held strong ties with many of the Latin and Balkan states and, for a while, was the most powerful of the successor states.

 

[talilu]

@Grand Historian

Would cutting Epirus like that make the northern part of the province Albanian? (Cham Albanians ?) Would love some more Albanian provinces.

 

[Grand Historian]

@Grand Historian

Would cutting Epirus like that make the northern part of the province Albanian? (Cham Albanians ?) Would love some more Albanian provinces.

No, because it was Greek. If there are going to be more Albanian Provinces, Albania should just be cut up as well (which I would like; Durazzo/Dyrrachium/Dyrrachion/Durres really needs to get in).

 

[Grand Pope Papa]

Yeah expand the Balkans, give it more provinces and maybe an island province in Dalmatia region connected to Dalmatia by a strait.
Balkans are realy fun because there are 3 religions there, 3 trade nodes and many small nations threatened by the Ottomans, Austria and Hungary.

 

[Grand Historian]

Yeah expand the Balkans, give it more provinces and maybe an island province in Dalmatia region connected to Dalmatia by a strait.
Balkans are realy fun because there are 3 religions there, 3 trade nodes and many small nations threatened by the Ottomans, Austria and Hungary.

As opposed to expanding what else? Everywhere you go, you're going to end up with a similar situation. And expanding the Balkans doesn't preclude the expansion of other regions, either.

And no one in their right mind wants Dalmatian islands in vanilla.

 

[Liquid Ghost]

Yeah expand the Balkans, give it more provinces and maybe an island province in Dalmatia region connected to Dalmatia by a strait.

Wiz mentioned a while ago they wanted to expand the region in the near future...I think? I don't remember in which thread I read something along those lines. So yeah, maybe we will get some province partitions soon enough.

I'd also like to see a Negroponte tag and maybe add an Athens claim on Negroponte. Some Byz cores on all Greek culture provinces would be great, too. Thye are missing Corfu, Negroponte, Cyprus, Rhodes, Naxos and Crete.

 

[Grand Historian]

I'd also like to see a Negroponte tag and maybe add an Athens claim on Negroponte. Some Byz cores on all Greek culture provinces would be great, too. Thye are missing Corfu, Negroponte, Cyprus, Rhodes, Naxos and Crete.

They were actually removed in an attempt to keep Byzantium from popping up in the Aegean, but that clearly didn't work. A simpler solution would just be to remove the Catholic Heretic Intolerance Modifier.

 

[Liquid Ghost]

Well, how about removing all BYZ cores (except Constantinople) after they get gobbled up by the Ottomans? Then what would potentially pop up would be the smaller Greek states.

Alternatively, without removing the cores, isn't there a way to prioritize some tags to be released over others? Prioritizing the minor Greek states, of course. Or even Greece.

 

[Martin_Mortyry]

Well, how about removing all BYZ cores (except Constantinople) after they get gobbled up by the Ottomans? Then what would potentially pop up wpuld be the smaller Greek states.

Alternatively, without removing the cores, isn't there a way to prioritize some tags to be released over others? Prioritizing the minor Greek states, of course. Or even Greece.

It shouldn't be possible to form or even "pop out" Greece as long as Byzantium exists, It makes no sense whatsoever. IMO Byzantium should keep their cores in the Balkans, if Epirus was to be independent in 1444 they could conquer it with no penalties - wouldn't be much of a buff for BYZ, considering that the province is only 2BT, what's more Epirus existing in 1444 would be more historically accurate.

EDIT: Ah, got your post wrong. I think Byzantine cores shouldn't instantly disappear once they're conquered - they should disappear pretty quickly though. Also - It would be nice if once BYZ lost Constantinople but was still kicking it had event changing their tag to one of Greek minors, or even Greece if they pulled off long enough.


Oh, by the way Paradox - new color for Greece is awful, why did you change it?

 

[Demetrios]

The Despotate in 1444 was confined to a few southern coastal fortresses and Arta itself (which as lost shortly after, in 1449). It would be nice to have them on the map, but it would have to be in a much smaller province than the current Epirus province.

 

[Me_]

The Despotate in 1444 was confined to a few southern coastal fortresses and Arta itself (which as lost shortly after, in 1449). It would be nice to have them on the map, but it would have to be in a much smaller province than the current Epirus province.

Not at all. Albania covers about three times as much territory as it actually controlled in 1444.

 

[Grand Historian]

The Despotate in 1444 was confined to a few southern coastal fortresses and Arta itself (which as lost shortly after, in 1449). It would be nice to have them on the map, but it would have to be in a much smaller province than the current Epirus province.

As I said; split Epirus in two and Albania in three.