Hre
Hi, rather minor issue:
Shouldn't the 1648 event cause the Swiss to leave the HRE? They don't in 1.07.
Hi, rather minor issue:
Shouldn't the 1648 event cause the Swiss to leave the HRE? They don't in 1.07.
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No idea what you mean. Which event? The Swiss have none. The only 1648 events I can find are do to with Holland. Are you getting HEL and HOL mixed up?
There is no event, but in 1648 (I think) all the Italian provinces are removed from the HRE. I thought that the Swiss were to, but couldn't say for sure.
Code:
[COLOR=red] The external boundaries of the Empire varied over time. In particular, the western boundary shifted
many times eastward, as French kings encroached on the Empire as they enlarged their domains. Thus Provence (1246), Dauphiné
(1335), the bishoprics of Metz, Toul, Verdun (1558), Alsace (1648), Franche-Comté (1678), Lorraine (1736), the west bank of
the Rhine (1801) were incorporated into France after being ceded by the Emperors. There were losses elsewhere: the Swiss
cantons, practically independent of their Habsburg overlords since the Middle Ages, were formally set free at the Peace of
Westphalia in 1648. [/COLOR]From here. I seem to remember the dutch provinces being OFFICIALLY released at this time, also.
Yeah, but teh game can't simulate the Flanders change for one because as of 1526 it should be part of the HRE anyway
I was talking about the Edict of Tolerance, which removes the Italian states from Imperial control. I figured since that event fires around 1648 it should set the Swiss free. However it doesn't.
I see now. Which provinces exactly? What if they are not actually controlled by the Swiss at the time?
The game atm doesn't bother even to check what state Italy is in when withdrawing them anyway. It can all be owned by Austria, the Emperor and they'll still leave the HRE. So Bern and Schwyz might as well also follow that historical line.
In my opinion, both Bern and that other Swiss province should remain outside of the HRE unless an HRE nation, such as Austria, takes them, at which point they should be readmitted into the HRE. Just like any other province.
BTW are the Italian states supposed to leave the Empire in the late 1640s? I don't think they were mentioned at Westphalia. Could be wrong.
The way it works with the Dutch is that if the Netherlands exists, any Dutch culture provinces owned by the Netherlands are no longer part of the HRE; if the Dutch lose ownership of such a province to say, Kleves, then the province again becomes part of the HRE. I would assume that the Swiss could be handled the same way, but I have no idea how much trouble it would be to change this.
EDIT: At least, this is how the Dutch were handled prior to 1.07; I don't know if this has been changed.
EDIT: At least, this is how the Dutch were handled prior to 1.07; I don't know if this has been changed.
Hmm. Maybe what we are saying here is that ANY province should only be part of the HRE when owned by an appropriate power.
A general rule like that may be more acceptable than building in more special cases like the Dutch rule.
A general rule like that may be more acceptable than building in more special cases like the Dutch rule.
It's also a tad more work
And for most of the clear cut exceptional cases there alerady is an exception built in (French, Dutch, Turks).
I don't know how flexible is HRE engine but if it was possible to rework it, the list of countries able to keep intact the Empire should include any german country, Geldre, Frisia, Bohemia, Flanders, Burgundy, Bohemia, Lorraine, and even Helvetia, any italian country and Savoy at least until Edict of Tolerance which seems to be used to symbolize Thirty Years' War end plus Peace of Westfalia
This is now a rather theoretical discussion when there is a clear cut problem. The Italian provinces are removed from the HRE with the Edict regardless of who controls them. The game documentation suggests that Switzerland should leave at the same time.
In reality Switzerland and the Netherlands were formally removed from the Empire in 1648 - Italy never was. There were direct imperial fiefs in Italy (mostly between Liguria and Lombardy) right down to 1797.
I really think the best solution would simply be to removed Schwyz and Bern when the Italian provinces are removed. This is much simpler than trying to rework the entire model of the HRE.
In reality Switzerland and the Netherlands were formally removed from the Empire in 1648 - Italy never was. There were direct imperial fiefs in Italy (mostly between Liguria and Lombardy) right down to 1797.
I really think the best solution would simply be to removed Schwyz and Bern when the Italian provinces are removed. This is much simpler than trying to rework the entire model of the HRE.
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