Enlightened Times...

[gdj]

Been playing as a spiritualist pacifist lately, and found a bronze age civ in my space. I thought it might be a convenient moment to go for the "enlightened times" achievement (enlighten a bronze age civ), after all playing as a pacifist is a less aggressive approach as usual anyway.

Enlightening a bronze age civ takes time - about 50 years. In this time you spend energy and soc research every month into it, so it´s quite an investement overall. It´s usually not worthwile to enlighten a civ if it is below steam age or industrial age.

After many decades it finished, yet the schievement did not trigger. Why? Because the civ evolved after all this time into the iron age by itself mere months before the end, making the achievement conditions invalid.

This should not happen. "Natural" evolution of a civ should not be possible after enlightenment starts, espcially in a case like this where such long timeframes are in the play. At the very least the achievement should refer to the development of the civ when the enlightening process starts, not to its finishing condition.

Needless to say, it was annoying as hell that it didn´t work.

 

[Rezca]

Uuuugh I had this very same thing happen to me JUST a few minutes ago ><

I find a Bronze Age nation, and build a frontier outpost in the system so I can start enlightening them. I get a +20% boost a few years into the process which was nice, and then a long long period of nothing going on. Then while dealing with colonizing elsewhere, I get a notification they advanced to the Iron Age (Even though my scientists had been enlightening them for a few decades already...?) and to add insult to injury, the VERY NEXT MONTH I get another +20% boost to the process which put it at 107/100, and after an autosave the process completes - with no achievement of course.


I was dearly hoping that their "advancing" to the Iron Age would still count because they were in the Bronze Age for the first twenty something years I was enlightening them but nope - the game only considers what stage they are when the process completes, not where they are when you started the operation. And 50 years is a lot of game time to go to waste because of something like that happening :/

 

[ZomgK3tchup]

Wow, that's annoying.

It reminds me of when I was getting the achievement for terraforming to a planet into a Gaia world, and my sector AI colonized the planet a few months before the forty-year process was complete, stopping it entirely. I probably should have known better, but it was frustrating nonetheless.

That said, most primitives shouldn't advance from Bronze Age to Iron Age over the course of a normal game. Bronze Ages throughout human history lasted between one thousand and two thousand years while the average time for advancements through any pre-industrial age is 160 years. That's a little wonky.

 

[AvalancheZ250]

Wow, that's annoying.

It reminds me of when I was getting the achievement for terraforming to a planet into a Gaia world, and my sector AI colonized the planet a few months before the forty-year process was complete, stopping it entirely. I probably should have known better, but it was frustrating nonetheless.

That said, most primitives shouldn't advance from Bronze Age to Iron Age over the course of a normal game. Bronze Ages throughout human history lasted between one thousand and two thousand years while the average time for advancements through any pre-industrial age is 160 years. That's a little wonky.

Is this reflected in the game though? Do more advanced primitives advance faster? Because in my current game I met a atomic age civilization 2 systems away from my homeworld, and within 10 years they had advanced to a early space age civilization forcing to me invade and suffer a substantial opinion malus with another close neighbor (this one was space-faring though) while about 10 systems away a civilization has been in the early space age stage for the last 250 years.

 

[ZomgK3tchup]

Is this reflected in the game though? Do more advanced primitives advance faster? Because in my current game I met a atomic age civilization 2 systems away from my homeworld, and within 10 years they had advanced to a early space age civilization forcing to me invade and suffer a substantial opinion malus with another close neighbor (this one was space-faring though) while about 10 systems away a civilization has been in the early space age stage for the last 250 years.

According to the Stellaris Wiki:

Native empires can advance ages by themselves. The mean time to happen is 160 years for advancements up to the Steam Age, and 100 years for later advancements. There is a cooldown of 60 years after advancing ages before further advances are possible. Having an observation post built will notify you of every age advancement.

In other words, there's a 50% that primitives pre-industrial primitives will advance within 80 years and a 50% chance that industrial ones will advance within 50 years. Then, there's a 60 year "block" in which a recently advanced civilization can't advance again.

The Enlightened Times achievement is annoying because there's a decent chance of Bronze Age primitives advancing to the Iron Age. For example, if you find them on the 30 year mark and immediately enlighten them, there will be a 50% chance they will advance to the Iron Age by the time you finish.

 

[Rezca]

According to the Stellaris Wiki:


In other words, there's a 50% that primitives pre-industrial primitives will advance within 80 years and a 50% chance that industrial ones will advance within 50 years. Then, there's a 60 year "block" in which a recently advanced civilization can't advance again.

The Enlightened Times achievement is annoying because there's a decent chance of Bronze Age primitives advancing to the Iron Age. For example, if you find them on the 30 year mark and immediately enlighten them, there will be a 50% chance they will advance to the Iron Age by the time you finish.

I'm going through another game trying for the achievement again, and have come across a few Stone Age primitives so far and a Medieval one, but still on the lookout for a Bronze. Last game I found two right by my borders, but the first one got snatched up when the Early Space civ nearby popped and the other I came across too late (They hit Iron Age shortly before I finished the process)

I wonder though... With the next update you should be able to observe Stone Age primitives, so that might actually reduce the frustration of going after this one achievement a bit. Meaning, if you can catch a few Stone Age primitives at that point in their development, you can secure that territory and begin observing them until they pop into the Bronze Age. Once one does, you might be able to switch to enlightening without worry that comes with finding a Bronze Age species out in the wild?

 

[ZomgK3tchup]

If primitive advancement stays the same, yes. What would happen is that the Stone Age primitives would become Bronze Age and get the timer that prevents them from advancing for at least 60 years. Since it only takes 50 to enlighten them, you're guaranteed to get the achievement unless your station gets blown up or something crazy like that.

 

[henzington]

I doubt they will change how Age advancement works for pre ftl species. Indoctrination and making Stone Age primitves behave like every other Age have been the only changes shown in stream or dev dairy.

 

[Rezca]

I doubt they will change how Age advancement works for pre ftl species. Indoctrination and making Stone Age primitves behave like every other Age have been the only changes shown in stream or dev dairy.

I hope so! It'd make getting this achievement a lot less frustrating, though it'd still be time consuming. You could try and enlighten a Bronze Age one you stumble across and then hope they don't advance while being enlightened, but you can also set up a post by a Stone Age one if you find them and then just wait for them to advance before you begin enlightening. Either way it'll take a long time, but with the latter approach you'll have a larger window of opportunity to succeed and get the achievement.

 

[jdrou]

In other words, there's a 50% that primitives pre-industrial primitives will advance within 80 years and a 50% chance that industrial ones will advance within 50 years. Then, there's a 60 year "block" in which a recently advanced civilization can't advance again.

Except that currently the block is actually only 6 years, not 60:

       set_timed_country_flag = {
           flag = recently_advanced
           days = 2160 #60yrs
       }

This has been reported as a bug.

 

[henzington]

Reminds me of Office Space

 

[ZomgK3tchup]

Except that currently the block is actually only 6 years, not 60:

       set_timed_country_flag = {
           flag = recently_advanced
           days = 2160 #60yrs
       }

This has been reported as a bug.

That's actually kind of funny.