Enhancement - Croatian Culture

[User4035]

I'll keep this short - province of Krain in Austria should be Croatian culture.

Here is some info on that region:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovenes

After the reformation they started to diverge from the Croatian culture, heavy influences from the Germans and italians of course as that area was the crossroads for all those cultures.

But in 1444 its totally Croatian culture.

 

[Itchel]

I thought that by the year 1444 slovenes were all over austria even up into karnten
but the slovene culture was very accepted with the austrians and had been assimilating over the course of many years (this might be wrong though, anyone to back this up or correct me?)

Anyways, I don't think krain should be croatian but rather a new culture of slovenian, The group which it belongs to is where I'm torn between german and south slavic

German because they got along well with the slovenes up until somewhere in the 1820's
and south slavs because that's where their linguistic and ethnic simularities are at (cant say anything about culture)

 

[User4035]

Krubukos, try to remember that this is for the renaissance era. Cutlures and languages shift over time. there were no slovenians in this time period.
The info in the wikipedia link says specifically that the croatians in Krain area started to diverge from into a new slovenian group AFTER the reformation period.
And that doesn't mean they just instantly changed either. It slowly happened.


As for accepted cultures. That is a totally different game mechanic and has little to do with my historical culture posts. If you like you can make a suggestion thread regarding a change to the way accepted cultures work. ....I think many people would agree that the accept cultures mechanics is very arbitrary and needs some kind of rework.
Hungary is a great example of a bunch of different cultures under the kingdom which all seemed to be historically "accepted" but game wise they would all not be accepted.

 

[Anatur]

At its most basic there are only 3 south slavic peoples.

The croats,serbs and bulgarians.

Anything else like slovenes,montenegrins,bosnians or macedonians are mostly political contructs.

At its most basic if it werent for the heavy foreign influence the slovenes wouldnt differ much from croats.

As such its preaty safe to turn krain croatian in culture,after all nobody had an issue with making all the slovaks hungarians.

 

[User4035]

I thought that by the year 1444 slovenes were all over austria even up into karnten
but the slovene culture was very accepted with the austrians and had been assimilating over the course of many years (this might be wrong though, anyone to back this up or correct me?)

Anyways, I don't think krain should be croatian but rather a new culture of slovenian, The group which it belongs to is where I'm torn between german and south slavic

German because they got along well with the slovenes up until somewhere in the 1820's
and south slavs because that's where their linguistic and ethnic simularities are at (cant say anything about culture)

I made a suggestion thread regarding accept culture mechanics. Because yes it was annoying me too how making these historically accurate cultures would just automatically decrease tax and manpower. lol
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/suggestion-cutlure-rework-mechanics.878671/

 

[User4035]

sorry for the double post but I couldn't figure out how to do the multi-quote thing

At its most basic there are only 3 south slavic peoples.

The croats,serbs and bulgarians.

Anything else like slovenes,montenegrins,bosnians or macedonians are mostly political contructs.

At its most basic if it werent for the heavy foreign influence the slovenes wouldnt differ much from croats.

As such its preaty safe to turn krain croatian in culture,after all nobody had an issue with making all the slovaks hungarians.

From my readings that's pretty much what I found. The slovaks are just czechs with a different citizenship name. I have another thread for changing the culture in northern Hungary to czech. And wiz approved


...Romanian is an oddball one for EU4 mechanics as well.
I was going to make a thread for them too but after doing my readings they fit in the south slavic group for 1444 timeframe.
Different linguistics but culturally influenced by much of the Slavic culture.

 

[Itchel]

Krubukos, try to remember that this is for the renaissance era. Cutlures and languages shift over time. there were no slovenians in this time period.
The info in the wikipedia link says specifically that the croatians in Krain area started to diverge from into a new slovenian group AFTER the reformation period.
And that doesn't mean they just instantly changed either. It slowly happened.


As for accepted cultures. That is a totally different game mechanic and has little to do with my historical culture posts. If you like you can make a suggestion thread regarding a change to the way accepted cultures work. ....I think many people would agree that the accept cultures mechanics is very arbitrary and needs some kind of rework.
Hungary is a great example of a bunch of different cultures under the kingdom which all seemed to be historically "accepted" but game wise they would all not be accepted.

well okay, that's why i took my disagree back, Still don't feel that krain should be croatian because nationalism wasn't very high in that area

 

[Hagbard00]

I'll keep this short - province of Krain in Austria should be Croatian culture.

Here is some info on that region:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovenes

After the reformation they started to diverge from the Croatian culture, heavy influences from the Germans and italians of course as that area was the crossroads for all those cultures.

But in 1444 its totally Croatian culture.

lol

 

[Alexona]

sorry for the double post but I couldn't figure out how to do the multi-quote thing



From my readings that's pretty much what I found. The slovaks are just czechs with a different citizenship name. I have another thread for changing the culture in northern Hungary to czech. And wiz approved


...Romanian is an oddball one for EU4 mechanics as well.
I was going to make a thread for them too but after doing my readings they fit in the south slavic group for 1444 timeframe.
Different linguistics but culturally influenced by much of the Slavic culture.

If we really wanna be so minimalistic about cultures, then how about merging Serbians and Croatians into a single culture? After all, linguistically they're basically the same except for the alphabet they use and back in those days was there any way to differentiate between them except for the fact they had separate states and different religions? I mean Bosnia had a separate state and different religion than most of Serbs, yet they didn't get their own culture in the vanilla...

 

[User4035]

If we really wanna be so minimalistic about cultures, then how about merging Serbians and Croatians into a single culture? After all, linguistically they're basically the same except for the alphabet they use and back in those days was there any way to differentiate between them except for the fact they had separate states and different religions? I mean Bosnia had a separate state and different religion than most of Serbs, yet they didn't get their own culture in the vanilla...

....well I'm not really being minimalistic. I've done a few suggestion threads and I wanted to be through.

If you got some info from the 1444 period that's show Serbs and Croats were still the same then post some links.

Lots of maps I've seen just label them all as slavs. Especially the middle ages maps. So maybe your on to something.

 

[Martin_Mortyry]

Anyways, I don't think krain should be croatian but rather a new culture of slovenian, The group which it belongs to is where I'm torn between german and south slavic

German because they got along well with the slovenes up until somewhere in the 1820's
and south slavs because that's where their linguistic and ethnic simularities are at (cant say anything about culture)

Same would go with Czechs, (maybe) Pomeranians and many more... The best way to avoid mass genocide in game, once Slovenes are implemented, would be dividing cultures into cultural and linguistic group. And hey, we would also solve the Celtic problem!

 

[User4035]

Same would go with Czechs, (maybe) Pomeranians and many more... The best way to avoid mass genocide in game, once Slovenes are implemented, would be dividing cultures into cultural and linguistic group. And hey, we would also solve the Celtic problem!

well we know that the celtic problem is purely because of game mechanic. Cultural Unions only work for same culture groups. - i'm no programmer so I don't know the detials. So scottish has to be the same as english for great britain to get cultural union.
As for pomerania - I won't even touch the German stuff, that's just a hodge podge of made up gobblygook.



Overall I don't care too much for any modern nationalism. But I like my historical game to be as accurate as can be!

Boy, I hope EU5 has population. Then you could have percentages in provinces instead of having to abstract everything.

 

[Martin_Mortyry]

Boy, I hope EU5 has population. Then you could have percentages in provinces instead of having to abstract everything.

Technically bringing back population wouldn't be that much of a deal. We already have manpower shown in a province's window, based on that we could conclude that there is about 2,5 times more people living in the province. Why isn't that in a game, I don't know, probably because it's impossible to tell how many people have lived in some areas. Still, though it doesn't really impact the game, lack of "population" damages the immersion, I personally would like to see a "population" instead of "manpower" window, which would show how many men are able to fight out of all the people once you place your cursor on the numbers(or just show it in the province's window to make it instantly visible).