English nation

[unmerged(181599)]

I hate how most paradox games (Except EU series) don't include an English nation. The UK isn't England, just like the UK isn't Scotland. It looks pretty confusing when you have an independent Scotland and Ireland, and yet England is still the United Kingdom...

 

[Ayeshteni]

I hate how most paradox games (Except EU series) don't include an English nation. The UK isn't England, just like the UK isn't Scotland. It looks pretty confusing when you have an independent Scotland and Ireland, and yet England is still the United Kingdom...

Most Paradox Games do:

Crusader Kings
EU1
EU2
EU3
HoI2

So thats HoI3 (which doesn't have an independent Scotland either, but does naturally have an Independent Ireland as they were in fact independent) and Victoria 1.

So your 'most' paradox games relates in fact only to Victoria 1.

But I do agree with your statement that the UK is not England; something which I kept telling those fine people over at AGEOD.

Ayeshteni

 

[unmerged(181599)]

Hmm, I thought HoI2 didnt have England...

 

[Ayeshteni]

Hmm, I thought HoI2 didnt have England...

Included as a Uxx tag in Doomsday I think.

Ayeshteni

 

[unmerged(80814)]

I hope so. Perhaps with the border moved further north..

 

[Cinéad IV]

I hope so. Perhaps with the border moved further north..

Well, then it's just Britain....

 

[unmerged(80814)]

Well, then it's just Britain....

I was thinking up to the Antonine Wall, should I be playing England in Vicky 2.

Its where I normally moved the border in previous paradox games.

 

[Ayeshteni]

I was thinking up to the Antonine Wall, should I be playing England in Vicky 2.

Its where I normally moved the border in previous paradox games.

I thought it was South?

Around the Watford Gap.

Aye.

 

[rjf101]

Yes, England is NOT the same as the United Kingdom. It is just a part (albeit the largest part) of the UK. I*n fact there's even a small English independance party operating in England. Can't remember the name though.

 

[Ayeshteni]

Yes, England is NOT the same as the United Kingdom. It is just a part (albeit the largest part) of the UK. I*n fact there's even a small English independance party operating in England. Can't remember the name though.

There is no English Independence party to my knowledge.

You may be thinking of the English Democrats: http://www.englishdemocrats.org.uk/

They want an autonomous English Parliement like Scotland and Wales, within the Union of the UK.

Ayeshteni

 

[Woody Man]

I thought it was South?

Around the Watford Gap.

Aye.

Nein, it's along the Firth of Forth and Firth of Clyde line.

 

[unmerged(81228)]

It looks pretty confusing when you have an independent Scotland and Ireland, and yet England is still the United Kingdom...

If it includes, for example British India and other teritories, it wouldn't be JUST England, would it?

I don't see where the problem is. As far as I remember in Vic 1 it was just one culture group: "British", no "Scottish", "English" or "Welsh".

 

[Rhion]

If it includes, for example British India and other teritories, it wouldn't be JUST England, would it?

It would definitely not be the "United Kingdom". That name refers specifically to the merger of the English and Scottish Kingdom created by 1707 "The Act of Union".

Without Scotland, but with colonies like India, the "English Empire" would probably be a much more fitting name, because I think "British" refers to citizens of the entire island.

I don't see where the problem is. As far as I remember in Vic 1 it was just one culture group: "British", no "Scottish", "English" or "Welsh".

And I don't think that's very correct. British is more a nationality rather than a culture group. It feels kind of like having a culture group of "Chinese". For instance, Vic1 also had South and North German POP's, who I think had more in common than Englishmen and Scots.

 

[unmerged(81228)]

It would definitely not be the "United Kingdom". That name refers specifically to the merger of the English and Scottish Kingdom created by 1707 "The Act of Union".

No it doesn't.

On 1 May 1707, the Kingdom of Great Britain was created by the political union of the Kingdom of England (which included Wales) and the Kingdom of Scotland. This event was the result of the Treaty of Union that was agreed on 22 July 1706,[23] and then ratified by both the Parliament of England and Parliament of Scotland each passing an Act of Union in 1707. Almost a century later, the Kingdom of Ireland, already under English control by 1691, merged with the Kingdom of Great Britain to form the United Kingdom with the passing of the Act of Union 1800.

So it is UK as long as Northern Ireland is part of it. Even if south of Irish Isle is independant.

 

[Trin Tragula]

Without Scotland, but with colonies like India, the "English Empire" would probably be a much more fitting name, because I think "British" refers to citizens of the entire island.

They might very well have kept British in the name though to state a claim to the entire British isles?
Monarchs have been known to keep titles around way after they've lost the land areas that title was associated with. I don't see why countries would have to be different.

 

[Rhion]

Then what are you arguing about here, Floyd? I admit, I made a mistake switching GB and UK, but what you just posted just reinforces Deadly Virus' point: An England without other territories on the British isles named UK doesn't make much sense.

Even if it owned India, the name wouldn't apply.

Monarchs have been known to keep titles around way after they've lost the land areas that title was associated with. I don't see why countries would have to be different.

Might be a bit embarrassing for a king to rule a united kingdom that isn't united. Maybe he could get away with the Kingdom of Britain, if all the other claimants on the British isles don't have a monarchy. A bit like "Republic of China".

 

[unmerged(81228)]

Then what are you arguing about here, Floyd? I admit, I made a mistake switching GB and UK, but what you just posted just reinforces Deadly Virus' point: An England without other territories on the British isles named UK doesn't make much sense.

I think it still does make sense as long as the Northern Ireland is part of it. Even with an independent Irish Republic, as it is the case now. At least for a gameplay reasons.


So again, where is the problem? I do agree it could be potential England in the game, the same as it could be potential Scotland, potential Wales etc (however I don't really consider it important). But it doesn't mean UK without Scotland should be called England.

 

[Cinéad IV]

Actually - on a bit of a tangent - I always thought that it might be better to term the country as a whole "Great Britain" rather than "United Kingdom", because if a successful republican revolution happens, you're left with the rather odd Republic of the United Kingdom, whereas Republic of Great Britain is perfectly logical.

 

[Rhion]

Actually - on a bit of a tangent - I always thought that it might be better to term the country as a whole "Great Britain" rather than "United Kingdom", because if a successful republican revolution happens, you're left with the rather odd Republic of the United Kingdom, whereas Republic of Great Britain is perfectly logical.

One of the DD's had a screenshot in which it was called "Republic of Brittania", so names will adapt to government type.

 

[unmerged(131989)]

No it doesn't.



So it is UK as long as Northern Ireland is part of it. Even if south of Irish Isle is independant.

There is actually some dispute over the naming in 1707. Indeed when England and Scotland united they were referred to as the "United Kingdom of Great Britain", though the "United Kingdom" part isn't clear if it is meant in a descriptive sense, or an official sense. When Ireland was incorporated there is no dispute that "United Kingdom" was used officially.

Actually - on a bit of a tangent - I always thought that it might be better to term the country as a whole "Great Britain" rather than "United Kingdom", because if a successful republican revolution happens, you're left with the rather odd Republic of the United Kingdom, whereas Republic of Great Britain is perfectly logical.

Using "Great Britain" doesn't represent Ireland's membership, though. I too hope that the naming of a country will be quite dynamic (at least different tags in different situations).

One of the DD's had a screenshot in which it was called "Republic of Brittania", so names will adapt to government type.

They are alpha screenshots though, so we can't be so sure.