English Coat of Arms

[themendios]

Hey hey I code too! Does anyone want me to give my opinion on Paradox coding?

Okay good! Why doesn't Paradox use Node it's obviously the future, what is this C++ crap! (do not try and wiggle out of it by pointing out that Node is actually ISO C tia)

Doesn't anyone over there read tech blogs?

Christ guys, do I need to move there and code for you? Because I will. Like tomorrow, if you ask.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Please stay on topic of the thread.

Which is the English Coat of Arms.

 

[tuore]

Crusader Kings 1 started in January 1066 (which was before the historical conquest) and still had the post-conquest flag. I had no problems with that.
The CoA in the screenshot is correct enough. When the game spans hundreds of years, one year does not matter at all. If it really bugs you, just mod the starting date forwards a year when the game is out.

 

[unmerged(226921)]

Crusader Kings 1 started in January 1066 (which was before the historical conquest) and still had the post-conquest flag. I had no problems with that.
The CoA in the screenshot is correct enough. When the game spans hundreds of years, one year does not matter at all. If it really bugs you, just mod the starting date forwards a year when the game is out.

CK1 started in December 1066. Veld did make a few pre-conquest scenarios, however.

The Great

 

[tuore]

CK1 started in December 1066. Veld did make a few pre-conquest scenarios, however.

Did it? I never noticed that. I always thought it began in January. My bad, then.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Did it? I never noticed that. I always thought it began in January. My bad, then.

When CK1 was released it indeed started on january 1 1066 (with William as king of England), but in one of the first patches 1.01 or 1.02 this was changed to december 26.

 

[RedRooster81]

I liked the Before the Conquest English flags, Veld. Though in my games the AI William never succeeded in his bid for the English throne, rebelled against France (as he did historically) and ended up cleaning stables for the Duke of Anjou. I hope that you update your excellent work for CK2.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

I liked the Before the Conquest English flags, Veld. Though in my games the AI William never succeeded in his bid for the English throne, rebelled against France (as he did historically) and ended up cleaning stables for the Duke of Anjou. I hope that you update your excellent work for CK2.

I only had William take England once with my BtC scenario

I will surely make a similar mod for CK2.

 

[Nuril]

When the game spans hundreds of years, one year does not matter at all. If it really bugs you, just mod the starting date forwards a year when the game is out.

Well that solves.... absolutely no problems at all and makes no sense in the context of the thread.

Your solution to "If the Saxons win there shouldn't be some weird Norman flag for England that never would have existed!" is "Let's just delete the Saxons, then"? Really? I think that's missing the point. Especially since we already know the starting date is fluid (and I presume there will be an "After Hastings" start-date), so you'd just click to increase a year. Not what anyone is talking about.

 

[sumdood]

Crusader Kings 1 started in January 1066 (which was before the historical conquest) and still had the post-conquest flag. I had no problems with that.
The CoA in the screenshot is correct enough. When the game spans hundreds of years, one year does not matter at all. If it really bugs you, just mod the starting date forwards a year when the game is out.

There was a reason the game was patched so it started after the Norman conquest. And there is a reason why Paradox has decided to start CKII before the Norman conquest--the ability to change a major historic event. I believe the main reason the date is being pushed back in CKII is to give the player an option to sustain a Saxon England.

Sure, I guess you could still change a major historic event and have a Saxon England with a Norman flag, but it wouldn't look like a Saxon England--it would look just like a Norman England. Without some sort of notable difference between a Saxon and Norman England I see no reason to start CKII before the Norman conquest.

 

[Nuril]

Without some sort of notable difference between a Saxon and Norman England I see no reason to start CKII before the Norman conquest.

To fly Norwegian flags in Winchester, naturally.

 

[Ameise]

Mainly because Saxon England was unique for its time. It had a very different government from anything that was continental, and was widely considered to be the most 'advanced' country as far as governance goes. I am hoping that that simulate Saxon England as more than just an elective monarchy such as Germany, as it was far more centralized than Germany was.

 

[RedRooster81]

Mainly because Saxon England was unique for its time. It had a very different government from anything that was continental, and was widely considered to be the most 'advanced' country as far as governance goes. I am hoping that that simulate Saxon England as more than just an elective monarchy such as Germany, as it was far more centralized than Germany was.

You could say that about a lot of realms. Each was unique, so exceptionalist arguments don't fly with me. But with I imagine at least a dozen playable kingdoms (not to mention dukedoms and counties) at game start, there needs to be a bit of generalization. Elective law may be the same kind of law in England and say the HRE, but it will be different because of who will be doing the electing. Same goes for gavelkind, which was the custom in various places on both sides of the map. It's up to us modders to work on the specifics for the realms that we think need the work. And that should be (rather) painless compared to CK1.

 

[Nick B II]

Mainly because Saxon England was unique for its time. It had a very different government from anything that was continental, and was widely considered to be the most 'advanced' country as far as governance goes. I am hoping that that simulate Saxon England as more than just an elective monarchy such as Germany, as it was far more centralized than Germany was.

This is the first time I've heard that Anglo-Saxon government was particularly advanced. I've done a bit of research on the period in British history, and I've never seen anyone say that the Saxons had a particularly advanced government. If you've got sources that indicate this, particularly ones that don't have a clear pro-Saxon agenda, I'd be interested in hearing what they are.

Regardless, the devs have made it clear that no unique feature of any state will be simulated. It's theoretically possible they could make an exception for the Byzantines, but they are writing a game about an entire continent. They really don't want to get down in the weeds arguing about how to simulate Shire-Reeves when Shire-Reeves are only present in about 60 of the maps 1,000+ provinces. They have taken this attitude to such extremes that even legal systems relevant to multiple countries in 1066 (such as Brehon Law and Tanistry, both of which are essential to simulating Ireland and Scotland in 1066) will simply not be present.

Nick

 

[RedRooster81]

Good point, Nick. Now there might be generic officials, like a constable for each county to oversee law and order, taxation, oversee the feudal duties in labor and raise the levies to fight when necessary (that would be the fyrd in Saxon England), for whom you get events (they should likely not be named characters, though it would be nice if you could appoint a steward of sorts for each county, or shire, you hold, with responsibilities to match). Because your English shire-reeve has to be cut to fit a congruent role with the French viscount, the Castilian alguacil, etc. Not a perfect fit and sort of generic, but it will do the job, well enough at least.

Now I think that there will be a lot of room for "localized" mods that will help flesh out what makes playing the King of Castile different from playing the Duke of Anjou or the Earl of Lancaster. But what we seem to be getting out of the box for our forty quid is going to be a rather generalized simulation of Europe and the Mediterranean world between 1066 and 1453. And for me that is when the fun begins.

 

[WankoStankins]

Let's not bicker and argue about having the most realistic coat of arms for each nation! Let us instead use our *imaginations*. If you play saxion england, just *imagine* that you're using the wyvern thingy or whatever. Problem solved. Just like I pretend that when two giant knights are hacking away at eachother on the map, I pretend that a battle with thousands of troops is going on.

Minor cosmetic details are extremely minor when paradox has so much other things to do on crusader kings for gameplay. And who knows, maybe in the next few years after they release 2 expansions and tons of patches, and the game is finally playable, you'll have gotten over it. Horray

 

[sumdood]

Let's not bicker and argue about having the most realistic coat of arms for each nation! Let us instead use our *imaginations*. If you play saxion england, just *imagine* that you're using the wyvern thingy or whatever. Problem solved. Just like I pretend that when two giant knights are hacking away at eachother on the map, I pretend that a battle with thousands of troops is going on.

Minor cosmetic details are extremely minor when paradox has so much other things to do on crusader kings for gameplay. And who knows, maybe in the next few years after they release 2 expansions and tons of patches, and the game is finally playable, you'll have gotten over it. Horray

Why not have a generic CoA for all nations and *imagine* that they are unique? We could go even further, make CKII a text based game, and just *imagine* that it has graphics. Or we might as well just turn off the monitor and *imagine* we are playing the game.

I think the fix is simple really. A scripted even to change the CoA for a Norman conquest of England, or just start the game after the Norman conquest. Using the Norman CoA for a Saxon England would be the same as using the Ottoman's flag for the Byzantine Empire. It just ain't right.

 

[WankoStankins]

What if saxon england won but the godwinsons eventually were overthrown by another saxon dynasty? Then the wyvern would be unrealistic again :O. And veld's gonna make a mod for it anyway so it's all good

 

[sumdood]

You have to complicate things

I think a good way to model this would be to give Saxon and Norman England their own tags. If there were a successful Norman conquest of Saxon England, then there would be a scripted switch between the tags.

 

[ZhugeKongming]

What if saxon england won but the godwinsons eventually were overthrown by another saxon dynasty? Then the wyvern would be unrealistic again :O. And veld's gonna make a mod for it anyway so it's all good

The Golden Wyvern isn't the emblem of the Godwinsons, it's the emblem of the House of Wessex (and so, in a way, all of Anglo-Saxon England).