England's ownership of Ireland

[Jester]

How does England get Cores on Ireland ? they start with cores on 232-Ulster in the later scenarios. I dont seeany events for them to get this core though. If this has been discussed could someone point me to the thread.
I think England should get a core one 232 representing the Pale, and there could possible be another event that gives England Cores on all of Ireland or maybe just Meath-233.I think this event would fire in about 1541.. this is when the King of England got himself appointed High King of Ireland.

Late,
Jester

 

[unmerged(4989)]

There is no event for this, but I wouldn't consider any Irish teritory as "core" until the Act of Union (1801?). Simple enough to script:

#The Act of Union (Ireland)#
event = {

id = 93037
trigger = {
owned = { province = 231 data = -1 }
owned = { province = 232 data = -1 }
owned = { province = 233 data = -1 }
owned = { province = 234 data = -1 }
owned = { province = 235 data = -1 }
}
random = no
country = ENG
name = "The Act of Union"
desc = "In 1801, the Irish parlament was shut down and union with Great Britian was declared."
style = 4

date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1799 }
offset = 10
deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1805 }

action_a ={ #Do it#
name = "Seat the Irish MPs."
command = { type = domestic which = CENTRALIZATION value = 1 }
command = { type = stability value = 1 }
command = { type = addcore which = 231 }
command = { type = addcore which = 232 }
command = { type = addcore which = 233 }
command = { type = addcore which = 234 }
command = { type = addcore which = 235 }
}
}

 

[Konig15]

Put some revolts in there, cause the Irish were pissed at that. I don't recall his name but a Dublin lawyer led a rebellion agianst the British and tried to get Napoleon to help him, but he ended up taking a long fall with a short rope.

 

[Jester]

There is no event for this, but I wouldn't consider any Irish teritory as "core" until the Act of Union (1801?). Simple enough to script:

#The Act of Union (Ireland)#
event = {

id = 93037
trigger = {
owned = { province = 231 data = -1 }
owned = { province = 232 data = -1 }
owned = { province = 233 data = -1 }
owned = { province = 234 data = -1 }
owned = { province = 235 data = -1 }
}
random = no
country = ENG
name = "The Act of Union"
desc = "In 1801, the Irish parlament was shut down and union with Great Britian was declared."
style = 4

date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1799 }
offset = 10
deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1805 }

action_a ={ #Do it#
name = "Seat the Irish MPs."
command = { type = domestic which = CENTRALIZATION value = 1 }
command = { type = stability value = 1 }
command = { type = addcore which = 231 }
command = { type = addcore which = 232 }
command = { type = addcore which = 233 }
command = { type = addcore which = 234 }
command = { type = addcore which = 235 }
}
}

But wouldn't cores better motivate England to control Ireland. As it is now I see lots of other countries controlling pieces of Ireland. I think England would consider anyone controlling Ireland as intruding upon their Sphere of Influence. There should definitely be an event for England to get a core on 232-Ulster This was an area that England controlled and colonized with new settlers anmd this would put the 1419 scenario in line with the later scenarios where England does have a core on Ulster.

For the other areas, I would propose that they get cores (at least on 232 and 233) When The English King is elected High King of Ireland. abt 1541 I think. Then the Act of Union with Ireland can give England Irish culture just like the similar Welsh event.

????

I cant beleive this hasnt been discussed before ?

Late,
Jester

 

[unmerged(9404)]

If you want to do it with already existing events you can add them with King Henry's offer (somewhere in the mid 1500). It makes a bit sense to add them there.

 

[unmerged(4989)]

But wouldn't cores better motivate England to control Ireland. As it is now I see lots of other countries controlling pieces of Ireland. I think England would consider anyone controlling Ireland as intruding upon their Sphere of Influence. There should definitely be an event for England to get a core on 232-Ulster This was an area that England controlled and colonized with new settlers anmd this would put the 1419 scenario in line with the later scenarios where England does have a core on Ulster.

For the other areas, I would propose that they get cores (at least on 232 and 233) When The English King is elected High King of Ireland. abt 1541 I think. Then the Act of Union with Ireland can give England Irish culture just like the similar Welsh event.

????

I cant beleive this hasnt been discussed before ?

Late,
Jester

Maybe it was in the pre-HOI/Vic days, I don't remember.

I agree that the ENG AI needs some motivation to take control of Ireland, if you're playing historical, because it never does it. I, too, am tired of the Portugese/Spanish/Swedish/French/Scottish Irelands I have seen. However, if you are playing historical, I don't think that ENG should have a "claim" on all of Ireland in the 1540s (I was unaware that the British crown was ever declared Vortgern. The only one that ever existed, I thought, was Brian Boru. If you could lead me to a source that supports your argument, I could be convinced otherwise, though ). Here is my suggestion, as a compromise, then:

1) I agree that there should be an event in the Elizabethian era that replicates the "settlement" of Ulster and expulsion of the native Catholic nobility. (Add a core to Ulster, religion to protestant, etc.)

1a) Add the core on Dublin (the Pale) with the Vortgern event.

2) Add cores on the rest of Ireland during the reign of Cromwell. Raise revolt risk in Munster and Leinster.

3) Event the lowering of revolt risk after X time and keeping Munster and Galway.

4) Ramp the revolt risk back up circa 1790 if either the American or French revolutions happen, especially in Ulster (show the reaction of the Orange Order with republican ideas).

5) Use (4) as a trigger for the Act of Union event posted above, adding Gaelic as a culture (superfuous if the Scottish Act of Union event fires, as it adds Gaelic already). Lower the revolt risk again, but what, maybe a loss of population in Ulster/Dublin? Stability hit? Loss of any manufacturies (how many of these are there ever in Ireland, though).

If you're interested in this, Jester, post back and I'll draft and post the events.

 

[Jester]

Maybe it was in the pre-HOI/Vic days, I don't remember.

I agree that the ENG AI needs some motivation to take control of Ireland, if you're playing historical, because it never does it. I, too, am tired of the Portugese/Spanish/Swedish/French/Scottish Irelands I have seen. However, if you are playing historical, I don't think that ENG should have a "claim" on all of Ireland in the 1540s (I was unaware that the British crown was ever declared Vortgern. The only one that ever existed, I thought, was Brian Boru. If you could lead me to a source that supports your argument, I could be convinced otherwise, though ). Here is my suggestion, as a compromise, then:

1) I agree that there should be an event in the Elizabethian era that replicates the "settlement" of Ulster and expulsion of the native Catholic nobility. (Add a core to Ulster, religion to protestant, etc.)

1a) Add the core on Dublin (the Pale) with the Vortgern event.

2) Add cores on the rest of Ireland during the reign of Cromwell. Raise revolt risk in Munster and Leinster.

3) Event the lowering of revolt risk after X time and keeping Munster and Galway.

4) Ramp the revolt risk back up circa 1790 if either the American or French revolutions happen, especially in Ulster (show the reaction of the Orange Order with republican ideas).

5) Use (4) as a trigger for the Act of Union event posted above, adding Gaelic as a culture (superfuous if the Scottish Act of Union event fires, as it adds Gaelic already). Lower the revolt risk again, but what, maybe a loss of population in Ulster/Dublin? Stability hit? Loss of any manufacturies (how many of these are there ever in Ireland, though).

If you're interested in this, Jester, post back and I'll draft and post the events.

I am definitely interested.
My main goal is to make England care about Ireland and actively seek to control it even if there is no Eire there. As it is now England just has a Casus Belli on the country of Eire. When that ends, they stop caring about Ireland and you see everybody owning a piece of Irish real estate.

Here is the info on Henry the VIII being made Irish King in 1541

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/timelines/britain/tud_henry_ire.shtml
http://www.ireland.org/irl_hist/hist23.htm
http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_of_Ireland

The basic event for this is ID=3826
If Ireland refuses it, England gets a CB on them(Which England always has anyway?)
If IRleand accepts they are made a Vassal of England.

After this occurred in our history England began slowly expanding their control, both political and auctual land of Ireland till by abt 1609 (The fleeing of the Gaelic Earls)There is no longer any Irish Resistance and England controls all of Ireland.

looking at the Paradox events
The O'Neill rebellion occurs in 1592, it could be argued that this rebellion would indicate that England had already technically started taking over most of Ireland ( at least Meath, Ulster, Leinster, and Munster all had varying degrees of English plantations and earls with titles granted them by the English).
The Paradox event "The Ulster Plantation" Id=21001
changes the population and the religion of Ulster...and also adds Revoltrisk to the rest of Ireland. This event only fires if England controls ALL of Ireland in 1615-1640. So in order to model the history of our time something is needed to make England conquer ALL of Ireland by about this time.

But giving the cores at the time of Cromwell is too late for this.
Ireland was already pretty much controlled by England by that point.

By the time of the "fleeing of the Earls" I would say that Ireland as an independent state has ceased to exist for sure.
two links about "The flight of the Earls"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/legacies/immig_emig/northern_ireland/ni_1/article_2.shtml
http://www.irelandseye.com/aarticles/history/events/dates/earls.shtm

Here is how I see it.

England starts with a core on Meath-233. This represents the Pale and the title the "Lordship of Ireland" that has been attached to the british crown since the time of King John and Richard the Lionheart.

Id=3826 "Henry's Offer" gives England Cores on all of Ireland, whatever the choice by Ireland. This occurs in 1541. IF Ireland agreed to it, then they will be a vassal of England, and will have some time to not be outright attacked by England. England will then have to try either Political annexation or just go for military. If Ireland did not agree to it, then they will be in for some tough years, and England will most likely annex them. They will take at least two wars though right? This also means that England has roughly 70 years to bring Ireland into the fold.

I also wouldn't mind seeing some Irish-Fantasy events if Ireland refuses Henry's offer and manages to take back Meath, then they can make England lose all of their cores on Ireland.

Think this should be moved to the AGCEEP forum?

....whew...take a breath....

LAte,
Jester