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From reading the FAQ's, I see that for England to win the 100 years
war (and thus retain French culture), they have to completely eliminate
the nation of France.

My question is, how many of you have pulled that off, and what
route did you take to do it? England starts off strong, but Henry
dies too young, and then France gets their three strong leaders
and England implodes a bit.

Any tips or experiences would be appreciated!
 

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Rockies said:
From reading the FAQ's, I see that for England to win the 100 years war (and thus retain French culture), they have to completely eliminate the nation of France.
That's not true. If you own Calais, Picardie, Caux, Normandie, Poitou and Gascogne (ie your original five provinces in the mainland Europe plus Picardie), then you will not lose the Hundred Years War, whether France exists or not.
 
Feb 10, 2004
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Robin74 is right about keeping French culture. Just keep what you have at start and add Picardie.
But if you want to "really" win, you mean "How do I go about conquering France?"

When the scenario opens, you're at war with many enemies, and your ally Burgundy, seems to get pounded regularly. But it's not so bad.
1) You may choose to virtually ignore Scotland. If they invade and besiege Northumbria, let them. Going toe-to-toe with that army is not wise; they have a good leader (Douglas). If they take the province, and move on to siege another, then you can send relatively small forces into Scotland and besiege theirs. In other words, play for a stalemate and a peace. I would even consider giving them one province. They won't keep it.
2) French vassals (Provence, Auvergne, Bourbonnais)
Leave them alone. First, they're unlikely to attack you. They seem to crowd around Brittany and Burgundy. Let them. Besides, you don't want to be stripping provinces from them (too expensive in BB - let the French or your allies do it). If they offer you a separate peace (white peace, or offering money) don't be afraid to take it.
3) Orleans. The AI English routinely defeat & force-annex Orleans. If you do it, it's 6BB. You can crush them and vassalize, or not ... but don't force-annex.
4) Your allies. Let the Burgundians look after themselves. They will hate you and possibly change sides soon enough, or give all their provinces to the French & Austrians. Brittany is your vassal, and if you can improve relations, they make a better ally. Also, you can diplo-annex later.
But remember that charity begins at home. Look to your own goals, and only then worry about your ally's predicament. You are the alliance leader.
5) That leaves France. Beat the living hell out of them - early. Henry is unstoppable; crush their armies. Two fronts: north & south, separated by Burgundy and the French vassals. You can beat the French and siege every one of their provinces, never letting their newly-built troops get off the ground. This is easier IF you don't let yourslef be distracted by the Scots, the French vassals, or your own allies. Capture every one of their provinces. Force-vassalize. (Oh - don't forget to take Picardie as well, or you'll "lose the 100 yrs war)

Now spend money to improve relations between you and the French. Bribe them to the point where you can invite them into your alliance. If you are forced to choose between Burgundy and France, let the Burgundians go. From this point on, every province conquered or inherited or annexed by the French will belong to you eventually.

If you win the opening war this way, the French leaders who show up won't be used against you. Your own weakness with Henry VI on the throne is not a factor, either.

With France as your ally, the rest is easy. The Scots are on their own, and can be picked off separately. The vassals? Whatever France fails to pick up, you can collect later. Force-vassalize them later (after you've diplo-annexed France)

Your big decision in the 16th century will be whether to turn Protestant or remain Catholic.
 

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The HYW is also better reflected in the AGCEEP mod where they put a lot of effort in making possible all the outcomes. If you want to try that, download it from the scenarios forum and read the FAQ posted there for specific details.
 

Underhand

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I found the best method was to do as Notomol said up until you control all the French provinces, but instead of force-vassalising France, wait for them to offer you all of their provinces. If they don't do this, accept a peace offer that gives you nearly all of their provinces. You are not the agressor in this war, so grab as much as you can for one BB point per province. Do not muck around with Scotland or the French vassals, as making a seperate peace with them will make you the attacking party in the remaining war. Wait five years, then declare war on Scotland again. Make use of that more or less permanent casus belli. Force vassalize the now puny French, then make a white peace (or pay gold for it, it's small potatoes) with Scotland. Invite the Frogs into your alliance, wait five years, and attack Scotland again. Call the Frenchies into the war (you did butter them up didn't you?), thus cancelling the vassal status of the three two-province French minors. Force vassalise them, and have your way with Scotland. Personally, I would always leave Scotland with all of it's original provinces. Maybe give them Meath.

Now annex everyone at your leisure. You are now Lord of France. Handily enough, now that France doesn't exist, the Burgundian inheritance won't happen, leaving you with plenty of time to vassalise and annex Burgundy. Once you've done all this you're unstoppable, and so it becomes BOOORRIING!!!
 
Feb 12, 2004
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Notomol said:
Robin74 is right about keeping French culture. Just keep what you have at start and add Picardie.
But if you want to "really" win, you mean "How do I go about conquering France?"
Hum. You say this is the best method ? I have some doubts... ;)

Notomol said:
When the scenario opens, you're at war with many enemies, and your ally Burgundy, seems to get pounded regularly. But it's not so bad.
1) You may choose to virtually ignore Scotland. If they invade and besiege Northumbria, let them. Going toe-to-toe with that army is not wise; they have a good leader (Douglas). If they take the province, and move on to siege another, then you can send relatively small forces into Scotland and besiege theirs. In other words, play for a stalemate and a peace. I would even consider giving them one province. They won't keep it.
Another solution is to ship troops while they siege Northumberland, by boat, either directly behind their lines, or (in last beta) to Meath, and across Eire and across the strait to Strathclyde. As I'll say later, stripping Scotland of its provinces in this war is at 1 BB/province, just like a DA, or even better (as a DA might need a FV, and often a DoW).

Notomol said:
2) French vassals (Provence, Auvergne, Bourbonnais)
Leave them alone. First, they're unlikely to attack you. They seem to crowd around Brittany and Burgundy. Let them. Besides, you don't want to be stripping provinces from them (too expensive in BB - let the French or your allies do it). If they offer you a separate peace (white peace, or offering money) don't be afraid to take it.
Take their spare provinces. You're the defender in that war, and concluding a separate peace on their side (but alliance peace on your side) doesn't change that. So, these provinces are at 1 BB apiece. It's easy to do, one minor at a time : you first siege their spare province, then their capital. And you wait until they offer you their spare province and money.

Notomol said:
3) Orleans. The AI English routinely defeat & force-annex Orleans. If you do it, it's 6BB. You can crush them and vassalize, or not ... but don't force-annex.
I agree with the no-FA, but they're France's vassal, so you can't force-vassalize them. The best IMO is to leave them alone, and hope one of your allies will siege & annex them (most probably Britanny IMHO).

Notomol said:
4) Your allies. Let the Burgundians look after themselves. They will hate you and possibly change sides soon enough, or give all their provinces to the French & Austrians. Brittany is your vassal, and if you can improve relations, they make a better ally. Also, you can diplo-annex later.
But remember that charity begins at home. Look to your own goals, and only then worry about your ally's predicament. You are the alliance leader.
I agree with that. In fact, once the first war is over, change your alliance : keep Britanny, but turn against Burgundy. It's better now than having to strike at Austria later (if you don't finish France first). And those dutch provinces are just too rich to be ignored.

Notomol said:
5) That leaves France. Beat the living hell out of them - early. Henry is unstoppable; crush their armies. Two fronts: north & south, separated by Burgundy and the French vassals. You can beat the French and siege every one of their provinces, never letting their newly-built troops get off the ground. This is easier IF you don't let yourslef be distracted by the Scots, the French vassals, or your own allies. Capture every one of their provinces. Force-vassalize. (Oh - don't forget to take Picardie as well, or you'll "lose the 100 yrs war)
Yeah, split your northern army in two, siege all their northern provinces. With your southern army : split it in two too, siege Vendée with one, and attack minors with the other. When you control all norther provinces (two years' work IMHO), go south with them.
Another often used tactic is to invite some more countries : Aragon, Savoy, Helvetia (and Britanny off course).
Once you've obtained provinces from all french minors (and hoping Orleans was FAed by Britanny or Burgundy), accept a peace with France for provinces. With 100% victory, you should get 5-6 provinces. If you let Britanny take care of Vendee, you might probably have them conclude a SP obtaining it, to strip France even more. That way, France'll be greatly reduced in power, making an easier FV/DV then DA. If you simply FV France, odds for a later DA will be lesser, more risky.

As for taking Picardie, the Loss of HYW event's startdate is 1453 IIRC, so you have 34 years before worrying about that. If you end that first war in 4 years, wait even 10 years before the second, FV France, you'll have 20 wars to DA them : plenty time enough, as with your relative economies you won't have to wait 30 years. But you'll probably get Picardie in the first war, among the 5-6 provinces you'll receive. Don't worry, be happy now. ;)

Notomol said:
Now spend money to improve relations between you and the French. Bribe them to the point where you can invite them into your alliance. If you are forced to choose between Burgundy and France, let the Burgundians go. From this point on, every province conquered or inherited or annexed by the French will belong to you eventually.
Which is true for any vassal, including Britanny. Burgundy is even more fit for more provinces-grabbing, as they're more aggressive and border many one-provinces minors (in the HRE). Once France is taken out, Burgundy won't be inherited, so you have more time to take care of them. When you'll turn on them after the first war, or after the second and later Diplo-annex of France, you'll get easy time to beat them soundly, FV, and be ready to DA them 30 later, even if they conquer half of Germany in the meantime, as you'll have both the power of France & England.

Notomol said:
If you win the opening war this way, the French leaders who show up won't be used against you. Your own weakness with Henry VI on the throne is not a factor, either.
Without armies, leaders are worthless. A France reduced to 2-3 provinces is absolutely harmless, unless they have Napoleon himself. Also, the AI doesn't know how to properly use leaders, as it too often sieges provinces with them rather than searching enemy armies.

Notomol said:
With France as your ally, the rest is easy. The Scots are on their own, and can be picked off separately. The vassals? Whatever France fails to pick up, you can collect later. Force-vassalize them later (after you've diplo-annexed France)
I'd rather say to let Britanny or Burgundy FA them in the second war, unless France has DAed them earlier. But they'll often eat each other, so you'll have only one of them to FV-DA later (= less work to do).

Notomol said:
Your big decision in the 16th century will be whether to turn Protestant or remain Catholic.
Rather, reformed or catholic ? You'll only have protestants in england, while reformed spread all across your lands. The only reason I see to convert to protestantism if you have a firm grip on the continent is if you have many german/scandinavian protestant provinces : you could more easily convert french & anglosaxon provinces than german & scandinavians. However, figure out the average cost of each solution, as the conversion of dutch provinces can be rather hard.


In the end, if you appropriately manage that first war, you'll get :
- three scottish provinces
- Maine, Limousin, Cévennes
- most probably 5-6 among Vendée, Picardie, Nivernais, Champagne, Guyenne, Languedoc, Lyonnais & Dauphiné
So, 11-12 provinces more, while France'll be reduced to 3-4 provinces. Off course, after the second war and later DA, you'll have to wait some decades to let that BB decrease (it's when you notice how bad a monarch you have...). Just enough time to let Burgundy grow a bit before DA them. But you'll still be able to grasp Iceland and Greenland from Norway/Denmark (and possibly other colonies in the far north from scandinavians or from Novgorod), and Azores/Canaries from Portugal & Castile (and take some portuguese maps, to start colonization early), BB-free if you don't delay (they're still colonies at start).
 
Feb 12, 2004
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Just to illustrate my advice, here's the result, but ten years after the end of the war (got busy against Britanny and Castile/Portugal in the meantime).
England_after_first_HYW_and_Iberian_War.jpg

I did exactly what I said : focus on each minor at a time, then receiving money and a province (or three in the case of Scotland, thanks to an amphibious move to avoid its armies).
And let allies do the annexations (Burgundy got an impressive BB, hence numerous wars after that).

Alliance : started with Burgundy, as usual, then invited Aragon, Savoy and Lorraine, as soon as I got diplomats. I hoped for Lorraince to be FA by France, but they survived and prove useful. :)

Negative point of letting Burgundy loose : they accumulate BB (FA both Berry and Orleannais), triggering some wars. Notably a DoW from Britanny's ally (once vassalization was broken thanks to Daywalker's AI mod), hence the conquest (for 1BB each) of Armor and Bretagne. And during this war, Navarra (the fools :rolleyes: ) DoW me (along their allies Castile and Portugal). And there's the advice on hurting the iberian powers without much BB : carefully select the provinces you ask, to be able to release them as vassals (yeah, and Aragon got a lot of revolts, it seems they didn't manage to keep 16 years under permanent war :rofl: ). And you get a Portugal down to 2 provicnes (with Gibraltar) and Castile to 5 (the four you see, and Murcia). With a bit of money to Granada to let them FA Sevilla and Cordoba (Andalusia and Toledo provinces, respectively), this makes a good competitor in the iberian peninsula.
 

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I find in vanilla GC, that it is best to annex Orleans, screw the BB! :D
It is a reasonable province and is best to be taken out early, get aragon into your alliance to draw off any southern French troops and use your leader to steal seiges from them. take everything you can, but ignore Scotland or follow lawkeepers advice, but Scotland can be taken anytime.
Don't leave the minors or you can be faced with not being able to declare war later on and then the sit like a cancer in your realm. You should be able to completely destroy France in the first war if you try hard enough. Turn on Burgundy first chance you get though :cool:
 
Feb 12, 2004
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BBBD said:
I find in vanilla GC, that it is best to annex Orleans, screw the BB! :D
Turn on Burgundy first chance you get though :cool:
There's a more devious tactic : let Burgundy Force-Annex all minors while you take all other french provinces. Then, you later Diplo/Force-Vassalize France, and wait peacefully until 1477... :D
 
Feb 12, 2004
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Lord G. Q. White said:
What happens in 1477?
Between 1477 and 1484, more precisely, as soon as Burgundy gets at peace.

Most often than not, Burgundy is inherited by Austria, but secedes back its french provinces to France. In this figure, you simply have to DA France, and to DoW Austria (still rather weak, since it's prior to the other inheritances events) to get the dutch provinces. Less tedious work than having to battle a big Burgundy at its heigths.

Rarely, France will inherit Burgundy (minus most german provinces), and so it's even less work, a simple DA will do the trick, no need to battle Austria. :D
 

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An interesting possibility has just occurred to me; I know not whether someone has said this before: Why not stay allied to Burgundy and assist them in their crazy annex-all-and-sundry spree? The idea is that you quash their rebels, constantly honour the alliance, and take any provinces that you like the look of for one badboy point each. Hell, you could even make a challenge of it, see how long you can support the Burgundian egocracy. Of course, it'd be difficult, but if the BB advantage doesn't end up being worth it, it sounds to me like a fun challenge.
 
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Underhand said:
An interesting possibility has just occurred to me; I know not whether someone has said this before: Why not stay allied to Burgundy and assist them in their crazy annex-all-and-sundry spree? The idea is that you quash their rebels, constantly honour the alliance, and take any provinces that you like the look of for one badboy point each. Hell, you could even make a challenge of it, see how long you can support the Burgundian egocracy. Of course, it'd be difficult, but if the BB advantage doesn't end up being worth it, it sounds to me like a fun challenge.
How do you think I came to a war against Britanny, and against Castile/Portugal (plus all the others I've withdrawn of) ? :D
But the downside is that you'll get increasing difficulties with War Exhaustion (trust me, even I, after my 15 years of uninterrupted war state, would have had problems by continuing ; in fact, in the last two years of the iberian war, I got more difficulties fighting rebels than castilian troops :wacko: ).

Burgundy will get smashed, earlier or later. DA Burgundy after they've annexed half of the HRE might be an idea, but the conquest of France alone costs 15 BB or so, and DAing Burgundy would give at least 15 BB more once they've done well enough. It might not push you above the threshold, but it has a great limiting effect on your diplomacy (and on your trade if CoT owners get a high enough trade level...).

Otherwise, I agree it's the way to go : let your vassals do the annexations. It's even better when you know you'll inherit them by event at one time or another. In a burgundian AGCEEP game, I once had Brabant annex 5-6 german minors before I inherited them, at 0.25 BB each. When I play vanilla Austria e.g., I push Milan, Bohemia and Hungary forward (Burgundy doesn't need to be pushed, but sadly they'll release several minors).
 
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I played an England game recently. Pretty much what Lawkeeper said. Letting Brittany FA Orleanais e.g. Regarding the scotsmen I placed a reasonable force in Northumberland and let the scots attack, they lost of course. Then I hunted them down, covering all their provinces and geeting all but their capital province in the peace.

One thing that is not mentioned is the importance of a big cavalry army. There are a lot of plains in Northern France. IMO this is the main reason you win whatever side you choose in that war. Just build this army and search for the enemy armies in a plains province and eliminate the army, be it Henry V.

But as the initial poster said: I also believed you had to eliminate France to keep the french culture (the inventor of the code in these events is/was no genius in communication, that is for sure :)), so I did.

As has been said: when you have won the first war decisively you can do whatever you want.

One last thing, anyone suggesting to FA Orleanais in the first year means he/her have not grasped the importance of BB points or is playing the game like the HoG has indicated he does. Back to the school bench! ;)
 

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Fodoron said:
The HYW is also better reflected in the AGCEEP mod where they put a lot of effort in making possible all the outcomes. If you want to try that, download it from the scenarios forum and read the FAQ posted there for specific details.
Indeed. It starts with a kind of wacky setup [you aren't france, but the dauphin] but it usually settles itself much better than vanilla.
 

Underhand

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Lawkeeper said:
A lot of things. All true, but still a lot ;)
Yeah when I began that post I was musing on an alternative tactic there, but meandered my way into an idea for a little challenge. I wouldn't do it meself if I was trying to have the most efficient game possible.

Daniel A said:
Regarding the scotsmen I placed a reasonable force in Northumberland and let the scots attack, they lost of course.
Not really 'of course' in my experience...