England: Restoration versus mission tree

[Beagá]

Is it REALLY worth it to go all the way in the Maine event and why? I´m feeling way more confortable doing the mission tree CB. Sure I integrate a bit later but so what? By that time I subjugate them I have ample strength to feed France Provence and etc.

If you DO go to war in the Maine event what is the strategy you use and what you do afterwards? Specially if you want the colonial game and Castille is allied to Austria+ Hungary.

 

[Steel_atlas]

It depends on the situation if you can call in allies on France for Maine.

And you will be able to get perm claims from the mission tree, dont click the mission that gives you the PU.

Save it for a later war preferably one with the Tudor that lowers AE and any other AE reduction you can get.

Don't PU france just get some land off of them and PU them later when they are smaller and easier to integrate

Basically surrender if you cant best France dont surrender if you can.

Being able to knee cap france early is really nice but yeah I dont try to PU france that early partly because of the AE partly because they are too big.

 

[BoomKidneyShot]

It depends on the situation if you can call in allies on France for Maine.

And you will be able to get perm claims from the mission tree, dont click the mission that gives you the PU.

Save it for a later war preferably one with the Tudor that lowers AE and any other AE reduction you can get.

Don't PU france just get some land off of them and PU them later when they are smaller and easier to integrate

Basically surrender if you cant best France dont surrender if you can.

Being able to knee cap france early is really nice but yeah I dont try to PU france that early partly because of the AE partly because they are too big.

What I've usually done is let my allies beat up France, while I fight the War of the Roses. Using the -10% AE on the France PU and vassalizing Scotland is very nice.

 

[Beagá]

You can´t vassalize Scotland in one war.

 

[Steel_atlas]

What I've usually done is let my allies beat up France, while I fight the War of the Roses. Using the -10% AE on the France PU and vassalizing Scotland is very nice.

Personally I like waiting for the PU because I tend to go espionage first and stacking espionage the era bonus and the leader means almost no AE.

Personally I have found myself being more strategic on mission trees.

Once you have knee capped France Scotland can be dealt with easily.

Plus it helps with sniping the Emperorship early which is great if you can get it.

 

[Methuen of Melnibone]

You can´t vassalize Scotland in one war.

You absolutely can with the subjugation CB you get from the mission tree - whether it's a special case or what I don't know, but it's how I did them in one war in my current game.

 

[Steel_atlas]

You absolutely can with the subjugation CB you get from the mission tree - whether it's a special case or what I don't know, but it's how I did them in one war in my current game.

I think hes talking about in the war with France.

I have had games where scotland stays out of it.

Plus if France keeps the guarentee dragging France into another war before it recovers and just making them release vassals is great since the weaker france is when you PU them better.

Makes managing them easier and makes integrating them or getting a throne inheritence easier.

 

[Beagá]

You absolutely can with the subjugation CB you get from the mission tree - whether it's a special case or what I don't know, but it's how I did them in one war in my current game.

In the btitish DLC you only get Subjugate with the mission tree and you can´t get 60% manpower AND fill your force limit. How else you get Subjugation before 1446?

 

[BoomKidneyShot]

In the btitish DLC you only get Subjugate with the mission tree and you can´t get 60% manpower AND fill your force limit. How else you get Subjugation before 1446?

You don't, unless you try and get the mission fulfilled before the Surrender of Maine happens. I was meaning using it sometime after France is PU'd. The bonus lasts for 15 years, and the amount of AE you get from PUing France is huge, you need to wait a bit to let it bleed off before you can expand into Scotland and Ireland.

 

[Cancerofthehead]

I have to strongly disagree with a lot of the comments here, at least playing on normal. If you can feasibly PU France in the first war, absolutely do it. Whether you can do it just depends on how alliances turn out. In an ideal world you bring in Burgundy and Castille against them with no additional allies and you can easily win.

AE isn’t a big deal, with a PU on France you easily become the superpower and the coalition would need to be utterly massive to threaten you. If you can get one large ally (Castille, Burgundy, or Austria) there is basically no chance of a coalition forming. Plus you can still freely play in your he British Isles and Northern Europe while cools off.

The only risk is that your King dies before they get to positive relations, but that is always a risk and if you promptly improve relations and send a merchant to get the bonus it shouldn’t be too great.

Weakening France also sounds absurd to me. I want the biggest, beefiest France I can get. With a PU on France, I will send my army off to fight wars around the globe and then I can just declare on one of France’s neighbours and wait for France to kill them with me doing what I want elsewhere. I will actively feed them and even consider handing over Gascony if the event pops (English channel centres of trade at the one thing I won’t give them)

Yeah, you aren’t going to be inheriting them but with at least -60% annexation cost plus admin efficiency, integrating is not a problem.

 

[Vin55]

You can´t vassalize Scotland in one war.

There is a mission where u get a submission cb for scotland.

 

[Beagá]

Aware of it but as I said it is not available by 1446 with the british DLC. Do I really have to repeat myself?

Anyway got in a weird situation where Burgundy decided to join the French... then in the force union from the mission tree I got Burgundy in the PU as well. Wonder if that is good or bad and how can I put it to good use?

 

[deathbypie]

Aware of it but as I said it is not available by 1446 with the british DLC. Do I really have to repeat myself?

Reading this thread, I can't see anyone claiming that it was available by 1446. Though with mercenaries and maybe some lucky events it is conceivable. But again, nobody actually made that claim you keep feeling the need to refute..

 

[Vin55]

You need some time for it ofc as with all force limit manpower stuff so drill army buy generals and you can try to rush it. But you are lucky to get it before war of the roses. But I would always delay the main event by releasing a Vasall and giving him the land or selling it to provence or britanny ^^. You are likley to loose because the war is not 1v1 like it was in the end but all French allies against you. You can only win fairly easy if Burgundy is your ally and joins for promise of land but the aie is horrible.

 

[Beagá]

Well the AE IS always horrible regardless of path but I hate more losing PUs from monarch death

When to choose Influencie as group?

 

[Big Bad France]

The mission tree is more of a sure thing. You can delay it until after you get through the War of the Roses, so there isn't as much pressure to get positive relations and wars are a whole lot easier when you dictate the starting date. I only would go to war with the Surrender of Maine event if I could call in Burgundy.

 

[grotaclas]

The AE from forcing the union is not so bad. The base is only 0.1 per development (instead of 0.75 for annexation) and France has less own development in this patch. Forcing the union in the early game doesn't even give a coalition. You get around 50 AE with France, 43 with countries in the french culture group(e.g. Burgundy if you are not allied to them) and less than 40 AE with close HRE members like Switzerland and Austria(because they own Sundgau).

 

[Cancerofthehead]

Well the AE IS always horrible regardless of path but I hate more losing PUs from monarch death

When to choose Influencie as group?

The risk of losing the PU to your monarch death is always there, I would say best to bite the bullet and get it over with. One minor thing, you can improve your relations before the war if it doesn’t trigger super early, so you should be able to have relations higher than normal at the end. Also, defending their provinces can be a good boost to relations early, so declare war on someone and let them siege down French provinces for you to unsiege. Being at war also gives you a significant relations boost, so while sitting in wars doesn’t prevent you from losing the PU, it can get you to positive relations faster.

For influence ideas, I would more care about what else you are doing. I wouldn’t annex France until at least 1650 so plenty of time to get them later, but if you are playing a vassal heavy style like I do you want it early anyway.

 

[Travis_Bickle]

I've PU'd France as England a few times.

ALWAYS do it on the first war. Don't wait, don't weaken them, it serves no purpose. Also remember that the BI can still fire for France when they are PU'd under England meaning you get France and Burgundy. At that point you can give up on Europe for 100 years other than small wars with Provence, Brittany etc, focus on uniting your islands and colonising, then come back to Europe when you're filthy rich.

The strategy is simple. I've found this works best with one ally, no more. Why? You want France to get distracted by Aragon and not fight your men. The AI always picks the weakest target and if you have say Castile and Aragon as your allies, the AI realises there's no point fighting south, they'll fight north. So ideally just ally Aragon, send your men to northern France, hire a big merc company to scare the French, when the war fires, send one stack to Provence and one to Chartes. Peace out Provence then go for Paris.

After that, avoid battle (it's not too hard if France are still fighting Aragon) until you've gotten at least 3 of their forts. If you're able to win 1-2 battles from there you should have the warscore.

I should mention, France will ally Scotland maybe 20% of the time. If this happens I would restart. It's not impossible but it makes the war a real pain in the backside. Ideally, Scotland rivals Denmark and you can ally them preventing the French from allying them.

Indeed, the most difficult thing is now getting their relations to above 0 before your ruler dies.

One idea is to sit on France in the war until the War of the Roses fires. I find that inefficient. There's a lot of rng involved here but by giving the money, ending the War of the Roses asap, hiring an improve relations guy and declaring on an Irish minor, you should get them to above 0 within a couple of years.

Like I said, after that you're pretty much a beast. What I usually do from here is attack Castile as Castile/Portugal have zero chance against England/France/Austria (Austria will ally England 100% of the time) and even Burgundy under your PU. The reason I do that is if you can sufficiently wreck Castile/Portugal enough pre 1500, the Americas are 100% yours. You might end up with Friesland or some random nations trying to colonise but they're easily dealt with.

 

[brantodb01]

I go in on maine

>Ally burgundy
>Call them in with promise of land
>Dont give them any

Later on use the transfer subjects age bonus to steal Flanders and Holland In 1 war but since 1.30 maybe it's better to try for Inheritance