England in 15th/16th century - strategy

[Xylander]

When I start with England in 1497 the first thing I do is creating Eire as a vassal. It's a bit tricky to kill those rebel scum fast enough before Eire declares it's independency from England but it's possible.

I do that, because I don't see any use in those rebellish and poor provinces. In the end they cost a lot more to control and defend than they pay for.

Any other ideas/strategies?

I wonder whether its a good idea to go for innovativeness rather than staying narrowminded. I think it's important for not falling behind in tech too much. But I don't get any conquistadors this way.

What do you think - better to conquer some rich European provinces by chance (e.g. Flandern to get that COT) or to go for the new world where is much less competition and war? You can easily conquer Lenape and get Manhatten (a COT too) and they'll give you somewhat around 500 gold ...

Is there any way to get to lvl 4 trade? It's soo expensive ... and I'm not sure whether it is a good idea to send merchants to COTs (with lvl 3). I think I always pay more for sending merchants than I get back from trading.

Last thing - that nasty reformation. On the long run, stability is too expensive with two religions and income is 30% lower for those with the wrong religion. So I'll have to send missionaries. Do you go for catholic or reformed religion then?

Maybe you play England from time to time and can give me some hints.

 

[unmerged(75349)]

You can go narrowminded without worrying about tech. I would, since you'll get more colonists and missionaries that way.

You definitely want to get trade 4 as quickly as you can. And trade 5 and 6. Research trade and infra as much as you can without falling seriously behind in the military techs. Later, when your economy is a powerhouse, you can catch and pass the AI in military tech very quickly while also making a ton of cash.

Trading at level 3 is worth it. It's frustrating at first, but if you're persistent, you'll slowly but steadily gain until you have five merchants everywhere.

Going for the New World is definitely worth it, but that doesn't mean you have to rule out getting continental CoTs as well.

Catholic, Protestant, and Reformed are all viable options for England. Personally, I like Reformed best, for the trade bonus.

 

[Xylander]

You can go narrowminded without worrying about tech. I would, since you'll get more colonists and missionaries that way.

Why without worrying? That makes about 30% more or lest cost for every tech!

You definitely want to get trade 4 as quickly as you can. And trade 5 and 6. Research trade and infra as much as you can without falling seriously behind in the military techs. Later, when your economy is a powerhouse, you can catch and pass the AI in military tech very quickly while also making a ton of cash.

Trade 4 costs about 15.000 in the beginning, more if you conquer new provinces or inflation rises. (Not to mention going narrowminded - each point for narrowminded costs 450 extra). My monthly income is around 30 in the beginning and rises to 40 within 20 years. So I can spend around 7000 in 20 years.

I guess it would take around 40 years to get to Trade 4! And that without any investment in any other tech! I'm afraid the AI will kill me before I reach Trade 4 this way ...

Trading at level 3 is worth it. It's frustrating at first, but if you're persistent, you'll slowly but steadily gain until you have five merchants everywhere.

No idea how you do it but I have to send between 2-6 merchants per year and COT. In the cheapest one, Flandern, I have to spend between 6 and 30 gold per year to stay in business but it only gives me 12-15 in return - why should I do that? With the other COTs its even worse!

Catholic, Protestant, and Reformed are all viable options for England. Personally, I like Reformed best, for the trade bonus.

In 1518 when the reformation happens I have around 200 gold of cash in January 1th so I can send one missionary every two years. With 50% chance of success and 6 or 7 provinces to work on that will cost 30 years of the game with nothing else than sending missionaries. Do you do that?

 

[unmerged(75349)]

Why without worrying? That makes about 30% more or lest cost for every tech!

If you pursue economic techs aggressively, you'll be making several hundred ducats a month by 1600 or so. In theory, I suppose you could hold off on reducing the Inno slider until you've got that big lead, and work on other sliders in the meantime.

Trade 4 costs about 15.000 in the beginning, more if you conquer new provinces or inflation rises. (Not to mention going narrowminded - each point for narrowminded costs 450 extra). My monthly income is around 30 in the beginning and rises to 40 within 20 years. So I can spend around 7000 in 20 years.

I guess it would take around 40 years to get to Trade 4! And that without any investment in any other tech! I'm afraid the AI will kill me before I reach Trade 4 this way ...

Well, you have to get there (and far beyond) eventually if you want a strong economy, and waiting won't make it any easier. England isn't very hard to defend, because the AI is pretty bad at invading across bodies of water. As long as you have land tech 9 and don't let your badboy get too high, your military tech is probably fine for a while.

Also, a refinery or two will help a lot. They're expensive, but pay for themselves many times over in the long run.

No idea how you do it but I have to send between 2-6 merchants per year and COT. In the cheapest one, Flandern, I have to spend between 6 and 30 gold per year to stay in business but it only gives me 12-15 in return - why should I do that? With the other COTs its even worse!

Are you using the empty slot method? If not, here's how it goes: wait until February 2nd (or a few days later), then find a CoT that has fewer than 20 merchants. You can figure out how many merchants a CoT has by looking in the ledger or by clicking on the province and looking at its trade tariffs (tariffs/3 equals the number of merchants). This way, you greatly reduce the number of merchants you waste on knocking the AI's merchants out.

If you're already doing this and you still can't make money from trade, then wait until you've got trade 4. Also, refineries raise your trade efficiency by a point each, so they may help with this too.

In 1518 when the reformation happens I have around 200 gold of cash in January 1th so I can send one missionary every two years. With 50% chance of success and 6 or 7 provinces to work on that will cost 30 years of the game with nothing else than sending missionaries. Do you do that?

Well, it's not urgent, so it can wait until you're richer if you have to. Definitely wait for a monarch with an excellent Admin rating- you'll save money and improve your odds of success. It may be best to hold off until Elizabeth takes power.

 

[Stoertebecker]

Which Mod are you playing? Vanilla? Then go and get the Atztecs before the spanish do. I'd suppose the same for AGCEEP but I don't know exactly about the triggers to get those american goldmines rich.

Don't care about Landtech. Land 9 is fine to conquer the natives. Everything higher would be too expensive. Invest in your economy before you care about the military. Sarachim gave some good hints for that. Some Cavarly is enough to defend your island. Don't be afraid of the AI: as Sarachim said: it's stupid.

You could also think about attacking some NA-Natives just to get their cash. You could wait for a CB or create yourself one (by offering them a loan). Then you can wait with peace until they have some cash (around 300).
That could build you some early refineries, which really are a "must-have" for any country with trading objectives.

Also you should have a look in the eventfile. England gets some scripted deflation events that you should use. Cash is more valuable in the early game than "science-income" since cash can create you much more of the latter.

Your religious choice should depend on what you want later on:

Being a warmonger and to conquer France, Spain and Italy? Stay Catholic.

You want to take the rich netherlands? Calvin is your friend.

You'll stay on your island and just build a colonial empire? Protestantism should be the religion of your choice.

BTW: You're talking about Single-Player, aren't you?

 

[Xylander]

Thank you guys - I'll try it out

Okay, I'll try to get some refineries. It seems to be a key to strong economy. Maybe I can get some more cash out of trade then, too. But I have to get two infra levels for that, which won't be easy.

Still I have no idea where those tons of cash will come from (in the 17th century as Sarachim said...). From Trade? From 100s of provinces? From production?

You are right, I'm playing vanilla single player. And I won't check source files ;-). Sometimes a series of random events makes it very hard. But - thats the game.

Maybe I can try out some of your hints with my current game, where I'm in 1522 and haven't got a clear idea how to develop my country yet. I took several continental provinces near Calais (e.g. Flandern), colonized the Bahamas (with all those 5000 natives) to a nice base for further exploration and the english provinces are reformed (nearly all). I'm missing conquistadors and will have to go narrowminded if there is no scripted one (which I expected). But I've got only one level in infra and none in Trade so far.

Some day I might be ready for mp, though. I'm not sure whether I will like it, because I like games where every player has the same setting in the beginning and the same chance of developing well...

 

[unmerged(95243)]

...

Some day I might be ready for mp, though. I'm not sure whether I will like it, because I like games where every player has the same setting in the beginning and the same chance of developing well...

have you tried playing chess?

 

[likk9922]

Still I have no idea where those tons of cash will come from (in the 17th century as Sarachim said...). From Trade? From 100s of provinces? From production?

All three. But if you can make the previously stated advances in trade, that'll be your real cash cow.

Maybe I can try out some of your hints with my current game, where I'm in 1522 and haven't got a clear idea how to develop my country yet. I took several continental provinces near Calais (e.g. Flandern), colonized the Bahamas (with all those 5000 natives) to a nice base for further exploration and the english provinces are reformed (nearly all). I'm missing conquistadors and will have to go narrowminded if there is no scripted one (which I expected). But I've got only one level in infra and none in Trade so far.

IIRC, England has a good number of scripted conquistadors, playing either AGCEEP or vanilla. Same with explorers.

Seriously, though, war is not the most profitable path in EUII. It is trade and infrastructure. They will give you the money, when developed, to do that army building.

BTW, always try to colonize provs with high tax value. The US East Coast, Lesser Anitilles, Indonesia, S. Africa....

 

[unmerged(45368)]

Really interesting to read along all this! Just had a few questions involving some matters, if you dont mind

My monthly income is around 30 in the beginning and rises to 40 within 20 years. So I can spend around 7000 in 20 years.

Really? How'd you earn that? What about inflation?

Are you using the empty slot method? If not, here's how it goes: wait until February 2nd (or a few days later), then find a CoT that has fewer than 20 merchants. You can figure out how many merchants a CoT has by looking in the ledger or by clicking on the province and looking at its trade tariffs (tariffs/3 equals the number of merchants). This way, you greatly reduce the number of merchants you waste on knocking the AI's merchants out.

Nice method, will be trying this out. But isn't the big problem the AI merchants knocking you out? I mean, I spend loads of cash on just maintainig my merchants in COTs (that is:replacing my knocked out ones). And still, being in pole position on a grand COT makes a max difference of 1 ducat a month...it doesn't really generate huge cash. I also really have the feeling spending more on trade than receiving from it.

Also, I don't really understand the crucial role of refineries...maybe someone can explain?

Thanks for the help!

 

[unmerged(108706)]

Refineries increase income in province by 12 or 6 if the province doesn't have sugar or wine. More importantly they increase your trade research by 5 ducats each.

As for CoTs, it pays off sending merchants, trust me. I usually start with monopolizing Flandern/Anglia for cheap, then start looking for rich CoTs (Portugese provinces in india can have 700+ trade value) and get as much merchants there as I can (35 ducats per merchant if full free trade, but those rarely suffer from competitions, I guess hindu nations don't invest much in trade).
And don't forget: having a monopoly gives you not only increased income, it gives you something even better: +1 merchant per year per monopoly and +1% trade effectiveness per monopoly. So if you have ten monopolies you effectively have one trade level more.

 

[Monkii-sama]

You can also see the investment that sending merchants is as transfering money to technology investments. Increasing your income is more important for techs than it is for getting cold hard cash in your treasury.

 

[unmerged(15247)]

I guess hindu nations don't invest much in trade).

ai always researches land 50% or more at all times, no matter the region they are in( the diffrence shows in time based on tech groups).

 

[unmerged(75349)]

Refineries basically do three things:

1. They give you 12 or 6 ducats per year, depending what good the province they're in produces. Okay, but not awesome.

2. They give you +5 per month to trade research. This is huge. You won't hit trade 10 for a long, long time, and until you do this refinery will keep contributing to it every month. +5 for month may seem small, but that's 60,000 per century.

3. They also increase your trade efficiency by 1%. Again, this may seem small, but if you have five merchants in every Old World CoT and a colonial monopoly or two, your raw (pre-efficiency-adjusted) trade will be several hundred per month. An extra 1% efficiency will mean several ducats per month. Plus, higher efficiency means that your merchants have an easier time getting into CoTs and are less likely to get knocked out.

Also: It's probably not worthwhile to try to get monopolies in CoTs that have heavy competition. If you do, the AI will go out of its way to knock you back down to 5 merchants, and you'll spend more than it's worth competing with them. 5 merchants per CoT should be your goal (unless the CoT is mostly empty, in which case, go ahead and monopolize it ).

 

[Mats_SX]

Really? How'd you earn that? What about inflation?

He is not referring to 7000 ducats in the treasury; he means that if he keeps Trade investing at 100% for 20 years, it will give him 7000 ducats invested in Trade tech.

And don't forget: having a monopoly gives you not only increased income, it gives you something even better: +1 merchant per year per monopoly and +1% trade effectiveness per monopoly. So if you have ten monopolies you effectively have one trade level more.

Nope. It gives you +2% Trade Efficiency. Though the extra merchant is more valuable.

2. They give you +5 per month to trade research. This is huge. You won't hit trade 10 for a long, long time, and until you do this refinery will keep contributing to it every month. +5 for month may seem small, but that's 60,000 per century.

5*12*100 = 6.000, friend. Doesn't really make much difference. Have 10 Refineries, and you've got your 60.000 (huge difference).

3. They also increase your trade efficiency by 1%. Again, this may seem small, but if you have five merchants in every Old World CoT and a colonial monopoly or two, your raw (pre-efficiency-adjusted) trade will be several hundred per month. An extra 1% efficiency will mean several ducats per month. Plus, higher efficiency means that your merchants have an easier time getting into CoTs and are less likely to get knocked out.

It should be mentioned that 1 Refinery usually makes not very large a difference. To seriously boost one's trade, you should have 3-5 at the very least. It depends on what level of crazy wealth you are looking for, but for about 3000-4000 Yearly Income (listed in the Ledger under page "Income Breakdown") you will probably need something like that (in SP), depending a bit on religion, country and your nation status.

 

[Xylander]

Refineries

For boosting province income I could build one or two fine arts academies years before Infra 3 is available. Seems useful to me as they give 12 per province instead of 6 (England has no wine or sugar). Though they only give +5 on stability instead of trade - I could use this, too, because my stability is hit on a regular basis by random events, adjusting politics, war & peace, reformation and so on.

Btw. this empty slot thing really works well. Best hint I have got yet.

Please don't talk so much of monopolies. It takes half a century to lvl 4 Trade and monopolies and I've played about 40-50 years so far . Maybe I'll start over again.

The scripted conquistadors are still missing in 1550. I think I got a random one in my last game in 1520. That makes a huge difference. In my current game I can't colonize ...

 

[Xylander]

Refineries

For boosting province income I could build one or two fine arts academies years before Infra 3 is available. Seems useful to me as they give 12 per province instead of 6 (England has no wine or sugar). Though they only give +5 on stability instead of trade - I could use this, too, because my stability is hit on a regular basis by random events, adjusting politics, war & peace, reformation and so on.

Btw. this empty slot thing really works well. Best hint I have got yet.

Please don't talk so much of monopolies. It takes half a century to lvl 4 Trade and monopolies and I've played about 40-50 years so far . Maybe I'll start over again.

The scripted conquistadors are still missing in 1550. I think I got a random one in my last game in 1520. That makes a huge difference. In my current game I can't colonize ...

 

[Xylander]

Refineries

For boosting province income I could build one or two fine arts academies years before Infra 3 is available. Seems useful to me as they give 12 per province instead of 6 (England has no wine or sugar). Though they only give +5 on stability instead of trade - I could use this, too, because my stability is hit on a regular basis by random events, adjusting politics, war & peace, reformation and so on.

Btw. this empty slot thing really works well. Best hint I have got yet.

Please don't talk so much of monopolies. It takes half a century to lvl 4 Trade and monopolies and I've played about 40-50 years so far . Maybe I'll start over again.

The scripted conquistadors are still missing in 1550. I think I got a random one in my last game in 1520. That makes a huge difference. In my current game I can't colonize ...

 

[Mats_SX]

For boosting province income I could build one or two fine arts academies years before Infra 3 is available. Seems useful to me as they give 12 per province instead of 6 (England has no wine or sugar). Though they only give +5 on stability instead of trade - I could use this, too, because my stability is hit on a regular basis by random events, adjusting politics, war & peace, reformation and so on.

Fine Arts Academies only give 12 ducats in one province, namely the capital. And they will not help your research for Trade 4 very much. All the time you spend at Stability +3 are wasted investment from FAA.

Read the Economy FAQ.

 

[unmerged(103313)]

Arts academies beyond the capital one are mostly for massive, multicultural/multireligious nations with serious stability problems. Russia, the Ottoman Empire, and the Mughal Empire are some that come to mind.

 

[unmerged(34338)]

Please don't talk so much of monopolies. It takes half a century to lvl 4 Trade and monopolies and I've played about 40-50 years so far . Maybe I'll start over again.

You can take the mono once you have trade 3. Trade 4 is not needed.