England becoming Norman cultured in 1.07

[thekinguter]

I don't know if this is a bug or WAD, but it's happening very frequently. I also saw it happen in Norman Apulia. Usually they end up being English (italian in sicily), but lately they are turning norman in the first 30 years of the game.



Is there anything I can turn off/edit so this doesn't happen?

 

[Sleight of Hand]

WAD as of 1.07 -- after 1100 those Norman provinces should start turning English.

 

[RustyTurban]

Bit silly that within 16 years of the Norman invasion (more like 10 years because the war in CK2 usually lasts until about 1072) peasants in a field in Winchester consider themselves Norman.

 

[Dracko81]

And the saxon provinces also. This is definately WAD.

Culture now spreads throughout all of your realm, and not just neighbouring provinces.

 

[Dracko81]

Bit silly that within 16 years of the Norman invasion (more like 10 years because the war in CK2 usually lasts until about 1072) peasants in a field in Winchester consider themselves Norman.

The original peasants were replaced with norman peasants from Normandy. As the event actually says when it occurs, you bring in settlers to make the county of your culture.

 

[cywang86]

I don't know if this is a bug or WAD, but it's happening very frequently. I also saw it happen in Norman Apulia. Usually they end up being English (italian in sicily), but lately they are turning norman in the first 30 years of the game.

Is there anything I can turn off/edit so this doesn't happen?

They're turning Norman due to the new Cultural Conversion event in 1.07. When you conquer a duchy/province/kingdom, they'll turn to the liege culture if the one controlling the holding is also the liege's culture, even if it's a very remote area. (bring in the settlers!)

Yes, you can turn it off, it's the 2nd even under culture_conversion_events.txt inside the events folder. I personally don't see a reason to, as culture conversion was essentially useless due to how slow it spreads. Making it quite annoying to play whack a mole or whack an unhappy vassal game when you reach empire status.

Either way, once the game hits 1100, Normal and Saxon culture under the Kingdom of England will start converting toward English. It takes a LONG time to finish, too.

 

[Theddude]

Culture seems to be spreading incredibly quickly. I saw Norway take England in my last game and the country was over 50% Norwegian before 1100. I didn't see the exact rate per year, but I did see that 2 provinces (York and the one to the south of it) converted within a year. I really don't think culture change happens like that, I liked 1.06 better, MUCH more realistic. People don't just start speaking their liege's language and following his customs the instant he takes the throne, the English populace resisted the Norman ruling class' culture until the Normans decided to semi-assimilate in the 1200s.

 

[Dracko81]

Culture seems to be spreading incredibly quickly. I saw Norway take England in my last game and the country was over 50% Norwegian before 1100. I didn't see the exact rate per year, but I did see that 2 provinces (York and the one to the south of it) converted within a year. I really don't think culture change happens like that, I liked 1.06 better, MUCH more realistic. People don't just start speaking their liege's language and following his customs the instant he takes the throne, the English populace resisted the Norman ruling class' culture until the Normans decided to semi-assimilate in the 1200s.

They are not assimilating, they are being replaced.

 

[cywang86]

Culture seems to be spreading incredibly quickly. I saw Norway take England in my last game and the country was over 50% Norwegian before 1100. I didn't see the exact rate per year, but I did see that 2 provinces (York and the one to the south of it) converted within a year. I really don't think culture change happens like that, I liked 1.06 better, MUCH more realistic. People don't just start speaking their liege's language and following his customs the instant he takes the throne, the English populace resisted the Norman ruling class' culture until the Normans decided to semi-assimilate in the 1200s.

This has nothing to do with the Norman vs Saxon history. Just settlement measure on conquered provinces that's being practiced throughout the world.
Even so, only provinces being ruled by a count/duke of conqueror's culture will go through the effort to change the province.

If you want Norman vs Saxon, there's a whole different chain of events for that, that'll probably take one or two hundred years for the whole English populace to become English.

 

[Theddude]

They are not assimilating, they are being replaced.

And where did they go? Did they vanish into thin air? I wasn't aware that Norway/Normandy had enough population to completely replace the population of the whole of England.

This game is not depicting 1990's Bosnia or 1920 Turkey/Greece, ethnic cleansing (that's basically the only explanation besides assimilation or simple vanishment) like this did not happen at this stage in history. No situation outside of Anatolia (and that was over a very long period of time) ever occurred like this.

I get that people want to be able to make things like a Breton France or whatever, but that's kind of part of the challenge, no? If culture change worked the way it does in the game English/whatever replaced it would be a Romance language, Italy would speak German and Spain would speak French because of the Bourbon Kings.

 

[Dracko81]

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/937007313302672493/12F8988063BCE38AEE0C06475C14EEEF28F3C7B9/

Cultural conversion does not happen as fast as you seem to think. Jerusalem has been in english hands for 150+ years, and there is still one province which has not flipped. Cornwall still isn't english, and its always been held by England.

I do not see how cultural spread of such large empires could be seen as wrong. The whole game is ahistorical.

 

[Theddude]

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/937007313302672493/12F8988063BCE38AEE0C06475C14EEEF28F3C7B9/

Cultural conversion does not happen as fast as you seem to think. Jerusalem has been in english hands for 150+ years, and there is still one province which has not flipped. Cornwall still isn't english, and its always been held by England.

I do not see how cultural spread of such large empires could be seen as wrong. The whole game is ahistorical.

From what I saw, England was mostly Norwegian well before 1150. I don't think I saved the game (I was playing an Armenian count in Ireland kind of a joke game :laugh, otherwise I would post the screenshot, but everything North of Wessex, Kent and Devon/West Country was Norwegian (excluding Scottish lowlands). It happened pretty darn fast, and once I got one county to convert to Armenian (I had become King of Ireland recently, had everything but Connacht), the rest of it was converted in 20 years.

I get that the game is ahistorical, but I guess we'll be getting into the sandbox/plausible debate. I can stretch plausibility quite a bit (see my Armenian count in Ireland, I think of it as an Armenian version of the Normans in Italy), but cultural conversion should happen realistically in my opinion, to me it's like giving machine guns to knights (if somewhat less extreme :laugh.