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Styrbiorn

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Originally posted by VultureGFF


So you think we should stay with the royals as monarchs?

Because of continuity, in many states the de facto power switched between the leader of the parliament and a king/queen. For example Serbia, during time the prime minister held the power, sometime the prince. It would be very strange switching between monarchs and de facto rulers. Therefore I still suggest using events changing stats.
Only my 2 cents though, don't care with this :)

Edit: also, if one state has de facto ruler this should apply to all nations and then we have a _lot_ of monarch files to change... ;)
 

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Originally posted by Styrbiorn


Because of continuity, in many states the de facto power switched between the leader of the parliament and a king/queen. For example Serbia, during time the prime minister held the power, sometime the prince. It would be very strange switching between monarchs and de facto rulers. Therefore I still suggest using events changing stats.
Only my 2 cents though, don't care with this :)

Edit: also, if one state has de facto ruler this should apply to all nations and then we have a _lot_ of monarch files to change... ;)

You are probably right about the dynamic of power between a monarch and parliament during this period for most states. However, I feel that Britain is a very notable exception. As early as 1820 the real power in Britain lay with the Prime Minister and his government, not with the monarch. Victoria had strong views, but did not attempt to force them on her Prime Ministers. She hated Gladstone & thought him a fool, but did not refuse to make him Prime Minister when he won elections.

One problem with using events to alter monarch stats is that altering monarch stats suffers from the same "problem" as revolt risk events: if a another monarch stat altering event occurs before the first one expires, the expiry date becomes whichever of the two events is later. Thus, a situation could arise where a "minister" stays in power longer than intended if a random monarch stat events occurs in the meantime (I hope this makes sense).

VultureGFF - I was actually going to offer to script the Prime Ministers myself, but you went & beat me to it. Not that I'm complaining! ;)
 

Styrbiorn

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Thus, a situation could arise where a "minister" stays in power longer than intended if a random monarch stat events occurs in the meantime (I hope this makes sense).

We don't even have random events that effect monarch values, but all right.
 

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Originally posted by Styrbiorn


We don't even have random events that effect monarch values, but all right.

I did not know that; in that case, my comment about the random monarch stats events is irrelevant. I was just going on what is in EU2.
 

Styrbiorn

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Originally posted by Johnny Canuck


I did not know that; in that case, my comment about the random monarch stats events is irrelevant. I was just going on what is in EU2.

That's ok, you couldn't know that :)

Beside from that, do you think there are enough reasons to use the PMs?
 

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Originally posted by Styrbiorn


That's ok, you couldn't know that :)

Beside from that, do you think there are enough reasons to use the PMs?

I think there are for using the PMs for Britain. I would imagine for most other cases it would make sense to use monarchs, with events for particularly good ministers (like Bismarck for Prussia/Germany). The monarch for Britain was not involved in governance, whereas the monarch certainly was in places like Prussia/Germany & Russia.
 

Johnny Canuck

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Originally posted by pds
the PM's should be elected like the u.s presidents in the american scenario. with each p.m having different values

Ideally, this would be the case, but British Prime Ministers could be replaced at any time, as opposed to US Presidents being replaced on a set date every four years. Simulating British elections would likely become a mess, considering the vast number of variables & possible outcomes.
 

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Originally posted by pds
british p.m's are elected every 5 years (or was this not always the case?)

Until the Parliament Act of 1911, the maximum period between elections was actually seven years, not five (although hardly any actually lasted that long).

Also, it was not until the early 1870s that changes in government actually coincided with an election. From 1832 to 1867, not one of the changes of Prime Minister had anything to do with an election. Instead, it was internal politics & balances of power within the House of Commons (political parties were very loose & unlike today during the 1800s) that decided the Prime Minister, not the very small electorate.
 

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Sorry if I repeat anything someone's said before- I've read this at some speed, so any duplication is apologised for in advance.

Monarchs/PMs- I don't have a particularly strong view on which should be used, but looking at some of those values given earlier, I was wondering if they took into account the fact that Britain's going to be relatively plutocratic, and will hence have rather low dip. values. Might be a cause for bumping them up a point or two.

Previous Events:
-The Irish potato famine. You've got that down as a one choice event, but I think that's a mistake. The Irish after all view it as a British orchestrated massacre. Give two choices- 'We must save our subjects' and 'The Free Market will prevail'. This would reflect the way that the free trade view of most officials of the day ensured that the famine was worse than it needed to be. The first option would mean a heavy hit towards mercantislism, plus lost money and perhaps -1 stability, while the other loses population and tax value.

-The Liverpool and Manchester Railway. As someone who knows too much on the 19th century transport infrastructure, I can see a few flaws here. Most importantly, the L&M came a good 10-15 years before the railways became dominant as a transport network. But as a symbolic thing it's good I suppose. However, the government would never dream in investing in any such scheme- the most the government did was grant the charter that allowed for compulsory purchase of land along the route. It wouldn't cost money from the gvoernment's perspective.

Some event suggestions, in no real order:

-Railway booms: The important ones were in the early 1840s, the 1860s and 1870s. These could manifest themselves in a hefty boost to infrastructure, and a tax bonus.

-Isambard Kingdom Brunnel: again, an infrastructure boost and perhaps a tax boost in Bristol.

-Cholera epidemic of 1850something (I think it is at least): Two choices- 'build sewer system' or 'one of nature's problems'. The first would cost money, the second population.

-White man's burden: Take it and lose some innovation perhaps, but get lots of nice CBs against all those dark skinned natives. Otherwise some kind of penalty.

-Trevellyn (sp)'s reforms: Formation of the profesional civil service, centralisation up, plutocracy up, or aristocracy up & stability drop

-Fashoda Affair (1898): CB with France, relations down.

-I-forget-the-name island: Volcanic island appears, Britain, France and Italy all claim, quarrel, island sinks into the sea shortly after. Small hit on relations and sheepish faces all round.

Got to go now, but I'll hopefully be able to get back with some more.
 

Johnny Canuck

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Originally posted by Evil Capitalist
Sorry if I repeat anything someone's said before- I've read this at some speed, so any duplication is apologised for in advance.

Monarchs/PMs- I don't have a particularly strong view on which should be used, but looking at some of those values given earlier, I was wondering if they took into account the fact that Britain's going to be relatively plutocratic, and will hence have rather low dip. values. Might be a cause for bumping them up a point or two.

Good point about the dip. values. I had not thought of that. I would agree with your suggestion.

Previous Events:
-The Irish potato famine. You've got that down as a one choice event, but I think that's a mistake. The Irish after all view it as a British orchestrated massacre. Give two choices- 'We must save our subjects' and 'The Free Market will prevail'. This would reflect the way that the free trade view of most officials of the day ensured that the famine was worse than it needed to be. The first option would mean a heavy hit towards mercantislism, plus lost money and perhaps -1 stability, while the other loses population and tax value.

Good idea, as long as the A choice is the "Let the Free Market Prevail." The event could also be tied to a "Repeal of the Corn Laws" event. The political elites in England were transfixed by that crisis, & hence did not notice the extent of the devastation in Ireland until too late.

-The Liverpool and Manchester Railway. As someone who knows too much on the 19th century transport infrastructure, I can see a few flaws here. Most importantly, the L&M came a good 10-15 years before the railways became dominant as a transport network. But as a symbolic thing it's good I suppose. However, the government would never dream in investing in any such scheme- the most the government did was grant the charter that allowed for compulsory purchase of land along the route. It wouldn't cost money from the gvoernment's perspective.

Completely agree. Did the UK gov't ever invest in railways during this time? I suspect not.

Some event suggestions, in no real order:

-Railway booms: The important ones were in the early 1840s, the 1860s and 1870s. These could manifest themselves in a hefty boost to infrastructure, and a tax bonus.

-Isambard Kingdom Brunnel: again, an infrastructure boost and perhaps a tax boost in Bristol.

Good ideas. There could also be an event surrounding the railway scandal caused by George Hudson.

-White man's burden: Take it and lose some innovation perhaps, but get lots of nice CBs against all those dark skinned natives. Otherwise some kind of penalty.

I think this event should be linked to a general "Scramble for Africa" event that all the European colonial powers receive in the 1880s.

-Trevellyn (sp)'s reforms: Formation of the profesional civil service, centralisation up, plutocracy up, or aristocracy up & stability drop

I really like this idea. The bureaucratization of the British government in the 19th century was a crucial, if little noticed, step towards the modern state.
 

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Sorry I took so long to reply- the computer conspires against me every time I try.

Railway booms (1830-6, 1842-5, 1860-73): +1 centralisation +1 plutocracy, perhaps +1 innovative, noticeable boost to infrastructure (depends on how much new advances are costing at this time)

I K Brunnel: Tax in Bristol +1, infrastructure boost

The 'Great Stink' (1858): Build Bazelgette's sewers: cost, say, 100. Let nature take its course: -5000 population, -1 tax value in London, perhaps enable future cholea epidemic.

Northcote-Trevelyan reforms (1854): Yes, reform is needed: Plutocracy +1, Innovative +1, Centralisation +1, perhaps governors in a few British cities. No, the status quo is fine: +1 aristocracy, +1 Narrowminded

I can't find the name of that island that rose, caused a diplmatic indicent, then sunk, which is rather irritating. I remember an article from the paper a year or so back, but the name escapes me.