Drachenfire

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Lambert Simnel said:
However it is decided to treat the Saxons religiously, the Irish should be treated the same as they did not conform to Roman practices and Pope Adrian IV authorised king Henry II of England to invade Ireland so 'that the Christian religion may take root and grow' in Ireland.

Possibly there should be events that show Papal displeasure with Catholic Monastic Supremacy realms. (Are there any other Catholic Monastc supremicists other than Ireland and the possible Saxon England?)



I agree with this as well: What goes for the Anglo-Saxon church goes for Ireland and Wales, and most likely Scotland too. If the "Catholic" church only dates to the schism of the 1050's, then most likely the the Celtic realms, already on the fringe and with a tradition of independece from Rome- and indeed each other, would not be as "Catholic" as a Norman England. I can document plenty of cases where Welsh religious laws and civil laws were directly opposed to Rome, with a Roman-Catholic Church blessing the Norman kings of England in their invasions of Wales up to the Edwardian Conquest of the 1280's.

If orthadoxy (with a lower case o) here represents non-Roman Christian churches, then the Celtic and Anglo-Saxon Churches could be grouped here.
 

gfortune

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Edward Atheling Scenario

Saxon prince, Edward Atheling, son of Edmund Ironside, grandson of King Ethelræd the Unready, and father of Margaret and Edgar Atheling. Edward the Confessor, sent for his nephew from Hungary and he arrived in England in 1057.

What if Edward arrived on the south coast of England late in 1057, did not die, with the Godwinsons losing their titles and lands due to a failed conspiracy?

I have a modified version of Engla Land (1066) where the 1066 battles did not occur, with both Duke William and King Harald Hadrada are still quite alive.

I request permission to allow access this scenario for download to use with Engla Land (1066).
 

Veldmaarschalk

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Veldmaarschalk

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You might want to change Harald Hardraada his gold/prestige/piety ;)



Code:
character = { 
    id = { 
        type = 10
        id = 102531
        } 
    dyn = 499
    tag = NORW
    name = "Harald Sigurdarson"
    date = "10150001"
    gender = male
    religion = catholic
    culture = "norwegian"
    [COLOR=Lime]score = { 
        gold = 33595.527
        prestige = 564.870
        piety = 206.500
        } [/COLOR]     attributes = { 
        martial = 7.000
        diplomacy = 7.000
        intrigue = 7.000
        stewardship = 5.000
        health = 6.000
        fertility = 6.000
        } 
    traits = { 
        just = yes
        cruel = yes
        zealous = yes
        valorous = yes
        knowledged_tactician = yes
        } 
    father = { 
        type = 10
        id = 102500
        } 
    mother = { 
        type = 10
        id = 102501
        } 
    loyalty = 1.000
    dna = "24548005806907"
    }
 

LlywelynII

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OOooohh! The British communion represented as orthodox? Nifty.

Canon law and ecclesiastical authority were a huge deal & the Normans caved in large part to get help ramming in their authority. To be fair, though, if you go that route, you really should have events where Rome offers reunion (and submission w/r/t, eg, appointment of prelates) or the player's excommunicated. Staying out of communion with Rome would've been an open invitation to be annexed by a Catholic power; that's why the Welsh & other churches submitted so quickly after the Norman invasion. Minor points would just mean having royal prerog as your religious law.

There's always Judaism lying around, but then you couldn't marry into the continent and that'd be no fun.

j.
 

LlywelynII

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Btw, you were completely right to give Hereford over. Even under the Normans, half the ingame province was the Welsh kingdom of Cynllibiwg at the time. Maybe they wouldn't've rushed into the Mercian open, but they certainly would've become the more powerful half of the region.

And don't listen to any of the naysayers. Those states should be indy. Christ, under the Normans in vanilla, the Marcher states should be indy - ingame vassalization is a lot more stingent and restrictive than the historical situation. But then, I'm sure you already knew that. :)

j.
 

Earl Uhtred

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Llywelyn said:
Btw, you were completely right to give Hereford over. Even under the Normans, half the ingame province was the Welsh kingdom of Cynllibiwg at the time. Maybe they wouldn't've rushed into the Mercian open, but they certainly would've become the more powerful half of the region.

And don't listen to any of the naysayers. Those states should be indy. Christ, under the Normans in vanilla, the Marcher states should be indy - ingame vassalization is a lot more stingent and restrictive than the historical situation. But then, I'm sure you already knew that. :)

j.

'Cynllibiwg'? I had never heard of this before but a cursory Google search suggests this was Radnorshire based, ie not in or at best marginal to Herefordshire.
 

LlywelynII

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Earl Uhtred said:
'Cynllibiwg'? I had never heard of this before but a cursory Google search suggests this was Radnorshire based, ie not in or at best marginal to Herefordshire.

a, Like I said about the map being poorly constructed, Radnor's in the CK "Hereford" province.

b, It was shortlived, getting pretty well crushed as the first target of the Marcher Lords, so it's skipped over in histories, but the descendants of Cadwgan ab Elystan Glodrydd (afterwards styled "Earl of Fferlix" - ie, Herefordshire - in the Welsh records) went on a conquest spree that earned them a reputation as outlaws and tyrants in, eg, Geraldus Cambri.

Of course, I don't have a history degree, so what do I know, :)
j.
 

Earl Uhtred

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Llywelyn said:
a, Like I said about the map being poorly constructed, Radnor's in the CK "Hereford" province.

Meh. The map is so horribly 'off' it's hard to tell where anything should be.

Still, thanks for the info - it's an interesting chapter of March history.
 

LlywelynII

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Earl Uhtred said:
Meh. The map is so horribly 'off' it's hard to tell where anything should be.

Maybe it's just my lack of interest in Lithuanian history, but I'm usually pretty impressed with their compromises between politically important borderlands and a semi-uniform map design. That said, the treatment of Wales does pretty much blow.

On the other hand, when I start to say CK needs Ceredigian/Cardiganshire and Ynys Mon/Anglesley added, I just remember how some Scandis think it's a crime against nature that Skane isn't in twelve pieces and bite my tongue a little.

Still, thanks for the info - it's an interesting chapter of March history.

Yeah :) Poor guys, starting up their dynasty's grab for power just as Willie decides to let his guys steamroll the Welshies. There's a page on this in the Welsh mod discussion & another I found that shows castle density in England (basically, you can walk from Chester to Cardiff never leaving the ramparts.) I'll see if I can't find 'em and post 'em for ya.

j.
 

unmerged(83459)

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Earl Uhtred said:
Meh. The map is so horribly 'off' it's hard to tell where anything should be.

I totally agree that the map is poorly constructed and I'm glad someone finally noted it and had the courage to say it. You realized it on England which you, the map creators and historians in general know pretty well. Just imagine how off it is in other parts of the world. :eek:
I hope they'll fix this for CK II (if it will ever see the light).