Sarmatia1871

Field Marshal
55 Badges
Mar 22, 2004
3.889
342
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
Yeah, the Orthodox connections look a bit too tenuous to be that viable. I was always under the impression that the Anglo-Saxon Church was more like a more developed version of the early medieval "national churches" which existed prior to the expansion of Papal authority in the 11th century - which aren't really possible to model in the game.

Also, events allowing you to choose your religion are quite complex and tricky, given the way the CK event system works!
 

unmerged(5783)

Second Lieutenant
Sep 17, 2001
143
0
Visit site
Regarding the suggested reading material, "The Fall of Orthodox England", it is interesting to note that the narrative - which concludes with interesting notes on Anglicanism and Orthodoxy and the current troubles within the Anglican Communion - omits the very Orthodox Saxon prince Edward Ætheling, son of Edmund Ironside, grandson of King Æthelræd, and father of Margaret and Edgar Ætheling. Were Edward to have become King, the Church in England might well have maintained close ties of communion with the Churches of the East right through the Great Schism of 1054.

A child of only a few weeks, Edward was spirited away with his elder brother Edmund to Baltic lands by a Danish nobleman who feared for their infant safety at the hands of Canute. In due course the royal children were taken to Kiev where they were warmly received by their distant uncle, Yaroslav the Wise. In Kiev the brothers were educated in Byzantine ways.

Judith Pinnington, quoting a book written on this forgotten Saxon prince in her 2003 work, <em>Anglicans and Orthodox</em>, suggests that Yaroslav had in mind that the brothers should play a part in his "grand design of a Northern-Eastern alliance in the face of the Normans and the residual elements of the Frankish empire." Furthermore, Dr Pinnington suggests, this had clearly anti-papal implications. Yaroslav later sent the brothers into Hungary in order to assist the exiled sons of St Stephen to regain the Magyar throne for Christianity. Edmund died in Hungary (apparently in battle), while Edward survived, and his presence became known to Edward the Confessor, who sent for him (Pinnington, or rather her source, suggests in order to become heir-presumptive to the English throne).

Edward arrived on the south coast of England late in 1057 but immediately fell victim to a conspiracy, perhaps involving Godwin and Harold of Wessex. With Edward's murder, Yaroslav's grand design began to fall apart, West and East.

Would England have remained in communion with the Orthodox Eastern Churches under Harold? Perhaps, but almost certainly the English Church would have so remained under King Edward son of Edmund Ironside.
 

unmerged(48283)

Second Lieutenant
Sep 4, 2005
147
0
Sarmatia1871 said:
]I was always under the impression that the Anglo-Saxon Church was more like a more developed version of the early medieval "national churches" which existed prior to the expansion of Papal authority in the 11th century

I think that's a basically accurate impression.

- which aren't really possible to model in the game.

This is where I disagree. The game does model those churches - and it calls them Orthodox. The Orthodox areas already in the game are not solely Greek Orthodox, nor even solely Eastern Orthodox. They already reach well beyond those classifications, un-modded, and are apparently intended to encompass ALL Christian churches not under the domination of Rome. Thus it seems perfectly sensible to me to use the tag as I proposed. Certainly there is no other tag in the game that could be appropriate - Catholic is not appropriate (as that would make them under Papal authority via hardcode) and they were certainly neither Pagan nor Muslim.

Also, events allowing you to choose your religion are quite complex and tricky, given the way the CK event system works!

Tricky? I was given to believe they are actually impossible.

If they're impossible, then the only way to work around that would be to choose an historical trajectory before starting the game.

Edit: After searching and reading a bit, I *think* I grok the situation. Only way I can see to change it is to set it to realm religion. Which only works for a vassal. So no, there's no clean way to script the conversion of a king. Am I right?

You might could set him to be a vassal, then convert, then remove the vassalisation, but not only do I not know for sure it would work, it's hacky in the extreme. Very ugly.

Edit2: Further reading leads me to believe even that hacky idea wouldn't be possible. Which is ok, I didn't like it anyhow. So I guess the only way to do it is to make the decision before you start the game after all.
 
Last edited:

unmerged(48283)

Second Lieutenant
Sep 4, 2005
147
0
jordarkelf said:
It wasn't a conversion to Orthodoxism!

I never said he converted. I said that if he had won, there was a real chance the Ængelsk church would have formally gone independent, putting it in the Orthodox camp in game terms.

The argument here is that if one defines Orthodoxism as that branch of the Church which rejected Roman (Papal) authority in 1054, Harold's alleged refusal to bow to Rome should put the A-S church in the Orthodox camp.

That is the definition of the Eastern Orthodox church, as even your own sources will confirm for you. 'Orthodox' in game terms is clearly a bit broader than that.

This is mistaken however: the schism as we know it today factually only dates to 1453, when the Turks destroyed Constantinople and murdered the christians living there.

This is utter nonsense. Every reputable source, including the ones you quoted, confirms that the great schism between the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches dates to 1054. But, let's assume you're right for a moment. What would that mean? That all the Eastern Orthodox areas should be retagged as Catholic. Uh, yeah. Whatever.

Before the 1450s time the majority of the catholic and orthodox christians saw eachother as simply christians, albeit with minor differences (if they were even aware of it!). This "early schism" was more a political than a religious issue.

Absolutely it was a political issue! The Bishop of Rome claimed a position of authority over the other Patriarchs, and that was the root of this and other schisms, no argument there. The theological differences were extremely minor - it was the question of whether or not they had a right to their own opinion, however minor the difference of opinion might be, that was the issue.

As such the schism more accurately dates only to the 1450s... or about 60 years before Protestantism.

Well if you really believe that you should make a mod with Russia, Serbia, Bulgaria, and Byzantium all Catholic I suppose. Since the game starts in 1066.

Even the myth of the mutual excommunication of Pope and Patriarch has no basis in fact.

See ‘The Orthodox Church’ by (Ort.) Bishop Kallistos Ware and ‘The New Catholic Encyclopedia’ for references.

And again your own sources flat out contradict you. It has a definite basis in fact, and the Catholic Encyclopedia acknowledges that. The Patriarch of Constantinople was excommunicated by Papal legates. There is some question, in retrospect as to whether they technically had proper authority to do that at the time that they did, but they did it and it was taken as proper at the time. The Greek Church excommunicated those legates - not the Pope himself, and have maintained a position of respect towards his office ever since - yet also consistently refuted the claims that that office is superior to, rather than in communion on a level plane with, that of the Patriarchs.
 

Sarmatia1871

Field Marshal
55 Badges
Mar 22, 2004
3.889
342
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
Arkerless said:
Edit: After searching and reading a bit, I *think* I grok the situation. Only way I can see to change it is to set it to realm religion. Which only works for a vassal. So no, there's no clean way to script the conversion of a king. Am I right?

You might could set him to be a vassal, then convert, then remove the vassalisation, but not only do I not know for sure it would work, it's hacky in the extreme. Very ugly.

Edit2: Further reading leads me to believe even that hacky idea wouldn't be possible. Which is ok, I didn't like it anyhow. So I guess the only way to do it is to make the decision before you start the game after all.

Yeah, just looked over things and there appears to be no "change character religion" command (only change vassal and province religion), and even if there were it would be a bit of a nightmare to get working. So, religious changes seem to beyond the scope of the CK event engine...

I think that Orthodox in the game represents Churches which never even pretended to be under the authority of the Pope. An Anglo-Saxon Church would still technically be in the Papal sphere of influence, at least in the eyes of the rest of Latin Christendom. So, the only ways to model a breach with Rome would be to make Harold excommunicated, which would make it very difficult for him to keep anything together for very long, or make him Orthodox at the start - which would also lead to funny results as provinces and vassals slowly become converted one at a time.

So, the current course, where the Anglo-Saxon states are Catholic but have Monastic supremacy, is probably the best to model a reasonably independant and autonomous Church.
 

Sarmatia1871

Field Marshal
55 Badges
Mar 22, 2004
3.889
342
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
Ayeshteni said:
Sarmatia1871, another top-notch mod, well done.

A few things

1) You may wish to either
a) update this to the new patch to make use of the different duchy setup, or
b) provide the 'old' shields for those who have updated (assuming a seperate install for the mod) to put it in line with the old patch.

2) your marriages. I noticed I could remarry even though my current wife was still alive (As Harold of England) this was because your marriage deathdates are before the start of the scenario (there should be no deathdate for King Harold as he still lives)

3) A reworked dynasty list is necessary to get rid of those pesky Norman names in Britain. :D

Many thanks - which is the new patch? I thought 1.5 was the most recent...?

And well spotted with the marriages bug, and does anyone have any suggestions for modified Anglo-Saxon names? Also, do the "English Melting Pot" events crop up with any frequency?
 

unmerged(5783)

Second Lieutenant
Sep 17, 2001
143
0
Visit site
"Monastic supremacy" seems the more historical way to model the pre-Conquest (and non-Conquest!) English Church, rather than having the religion set as Orthodox.

As to names, I would suggest - where fonts can accomodate - using Old English letters rather than their modern near-equivalents. For example, use æ (æsc - pronounced "ash") as much as possible when it has been replaced by "a". Thus, Margaret and Edgar Atheling should be rendered "Ætheling". And, if you really wanted the look of late West Saxon, the surname - actually the Old English word for "prince" - would be rendered "Æðeling", using the original letter ð ("eth") instead of "th".

Opens a large can of worms in terms of Nordic, Polish, etc. names, though.
 

Veldmaarschalk

Very old guard
Super Moderator
Moderator
149 Badges
Apr 20, 2003
30.027
1.263
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • 200k Club
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • 500k Club
Well luckily I already have done that for my mod, so here is a list :) the Æ works fine in the game

Code:
saxon;female;Ælfgifu
saxon;female;Ælflaed
saxon;female;Ælflaed
saxon;female;Ælfthryth
saxon;female;Ælfwyn
saxon;female;Æthelflaed
saxon;female;Æthelhild
saxon;female;Æthelswyth
saxon;female;Agatha
saxon;female;Eadburh
saxon;female;Eadflaed
saxon;female;Eadgifu
saxon;female;Eadgyth
saxon;female;Eadhild
saxon;female;Eadwine
saxon;female;Ealdgyth
saxon;female;Ecgfrida
saxon;female;Ecgwynn
saxon;female;Edhilda
saxon;female;Edith
saxon;female;Elfleda
saxon;female;Elfrida
saxon;female;Elfwynn
saxon;female;Elgiva
saxon;female;Godgifu
saxon;female;Gunhilda
saxon;female;Gytha
saxon;female;Margaret
saxon;female;Wulfthryth
saxon;male;Ælle
saxon;male;Æhelbald
saxon;male;Æthelbert
saxon;male;Æthelfrith
saxon;male;Æthelhere
saxon;male;Æthelmaer
saxon;male;Æthelred
saxon;male;Æthelric
saxon;male;Æthelstan
saxon;male;Æthelthryth
saxon;male;Æthelweard
saxon;male;Æthelwine
saxon;male;Æthelwold
saxon;male;Æthelwulf
saxon;male;Æthelwulf
saxon;male;Albert
saxon;male;Aldred
saxon;male;Aldwin
saxon;male;Aldwulf
saxon;male;Alfgar
saxon;male;Alfred
saxon;male;Alfred
saxon;male;Alfred
saxon;male;Alfred
saxon;male;Alfred
saxon;male;Alfwold
saxon;male;Baldred
saxon;male;Beornred
saxon;male;Beornwulf
saxon;male;Burgred
saxon;male;Ceolwulf
saxon;male;Coenred
saxon;male;Coenwulf
saxon;male;Cuthbert
saxon;male;Cynewulf
saxon;male;Eadbert
saxon;male;Eadfrid
saxon;male;Eadred
saxon;male;Eadric
saxon;male;Eadulf
saxon;male;Eadwald
saxon;male;Eadwig
saxon;male;Ealdred
saxon;male;Ealmund
saxon;male;Eanbert
saxon;male;Eanfrith
saxon;male;Eanhere
saxon;male;Eardulf
saxon;male;Edgar
saxon;male;Edmund
saxon;male;Edmund
saxon;male;Edmund
saxon;male;Edmund
saxon;male;Edric
saxon;male;Edulf
saxon;male;Edward
saxon;male;Edward
saxon;male;Edward
saxon;male;Edward
saxon;male;Edward
saxon;male;Edwin
saxon;male;Edwin
saxon;male;Edwin
saxon;male;Edwin
saxon;male;Edwin
saxon;male;Edwin
saxon;male;Edwy
saxon;male;Egbert
saxon;male;Egfrith
saxon;male;Elfweard
saxon;male;Elfwine
saxon;male;Eormenric
saxon;male;Estmond
saxon;male;Godwin
saxon;male;Godwin
saxon;male;Godwin
saxon;male;Harold
saxon;male;Harold
saxon;male;Harold
saxon;male;Harold
saxon;male;Hlothere
saxon;male;Leofric
saxon;male;Leofwine
saxon;male;Maldred
saxon;male;Morcar
saxon;male;Morcar
saxon;male;Offa
saxon;male;Oshere
saxon;male;Osred
saxon;male;Osric
saxon;male;Oswald
saxon;male;Oswine
saxon;male;Oswiu
saxon;male;Saebert
saxon;male;Saelred
saxon;male;Saewald
saxon;male;Saexbald
saxon;male;Saexred
saxon;male;Sigebert
saxon;male;Sigehelm
saxon;male;Sigered
saxon;male;Sigeric
saxon;male;Sighere
saxon;male;Siward
saxon;male;Swaefred
saxon;male;Swithelm
saxon;male;Swithred
saxon;male;Thored
saxon;male;Thurcytel
saxon;male;Uhtred
saxon;male;Ulf
saxon;male;Walcher
saxon;male;Waltheof
saxon;male;Wiglaf
saxon;male;Wihtred
saxon;male;Wulfhere
saxon;male;Wulfnoth
 

Lambert Simnel

Voter Colonel
64 Badges
Nov 24, 2001
1.531
484
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • BATTLETECH
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Rome Gold
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
However it is decided to treat the Saxons religiously, the Irish should be treated the same as they did not conform to Roman practices and Pope Adrian IV authorised king Henry II of England to invade Ireland so 'that the Christian religion may take root and grow' in Ireland.

Possibly there should be events that show Papal displeasure with Catholic Monastic Supremacy realms. (Are there any other Catholic Monastc supremicists other than Ireland and the possible Saxon England?)
 

Ayeshteni

Jehanne's Slave
102 Badges
Jul 31, 2002
6.274
94
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Penumbra - Black Plague
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 200k Club
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Pride of Nations
  • Rise of Prussia
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
Sarmatia1871 said:
Many thanks - which is the new patch? I thought 1.5 was the most recent...?

And well spotted with the marriages bug, and does anyone have any suggestions for modified Anglo-Saxon names? Also, do the "English Melting Pot" events crop up with any frequency?

Ah, of course, my bad (I am using the unofficial improvement pack which has the new duchy setup.) :eek:o

Ayeshteni
 

Sarmatia1871

Field Marshal
55 Badges
Mar 22, 2004
3.889
342
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
Veldmaarschalk said:
Well luckily I already have done that for my mod, so here is a list :) the Æ works fine in the game

:D Ah, excellent - many thanks!

Are there any dynasty names we could use as well? And what would be the Anglo-Saxon equivalent of "of <<Province name>>" for filler dynasties?
 

Sarmatia1871

Field Marshal
55 Badges
Mar 22, 2004
3.889
342
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
Lambert Simnel said:
Possibly there should be events that show Papal displeasure with Catholic Monastic Supremacy realms. (Are there any other Catholic Monastc supremicists other than Ireland and the possible Saxon England?)

There probably would be a way (I think there already Papal displeasure events for Royal supremacists...?), but I'd have to properly work out how the CK event system works before I attempt anything like that!
 

Veldmaarschalk

Very old guard
Super Moderator
Moderator
149 Badges
Apr 20, 2003
30.027
1.263
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • 200k Club
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • 500k Club
Sarmatia1871 said:
:D Ah, excellent - many thanks!

Are there any dynasty names we could use as well? And what would be the Anglo-Saxon equivalent of "of <<Province name>>" for filler dynasties?

This site could be helpfull in finding dynasty names
Anglosaxon nobility

Though finding 'family' names for that era would be hard, best is to make names like

Wulfricson
Morcarson
Eadwulfson

And so on
 

unmerged(48283)

Second Lieutenant
Sep 4, 2005
147
0
btg said:
As to names, I would suggest - where fonts can accomodate - using Old English letters rather than their modern near-equivalents. For example, use æ (æsc - pronounced "ash") as much as possible when it has been replaced by "a".

Also keep in mind that the cases where it has been replaced with 'a' are very rare outside of some dubious entries in the CK data - usually it gets replaced with an 'e.' ;)

For example, Æþelræd Unræd is referred to as 'Ethelred the Unready,' his second wife Ælfgifu is often listed as 'Elfgifu' and so on. 'English' itself was at the time spelled 'Ænglisc.'

Thus, Margaret and Edgar Atheling should be rendered "Ætheling". And, if you really wanted the look of late West Saxon, the surname - actually the Old English word for "prince" - would be rendered "Æðeling", using the original letter ð ("eth") instead of "th".

Yes, although eth and thorn (þ) were used interchangeably, so either Æðeling or Æþeling is correct, Atheling is wack though, if you must spell it without the original characters 'Etheling' is preferred.
 

unmerged(48283)

Second Lieutenant
Sep 4, 2005
147
0
Veldmaarschalk said:
Well luckily I already have done that for my mod, so here is a list :) the Æ works fine in the game

Code:
saxon;female;Ælfgifu
saxon;female;Elfleda
saxon;female;Elfrida
saxon;female;Elfwynn

Fairly sure those should be written with æsc - Ælfleda, Ælfrida, Ælfwynn. Some of the other 'e' names too, probably. Would take some research on each one to be certain. The ones that start with 'ea' exempt.

Code:
saxon;male;Æhelbald
saxon;male;Æthelbert
saxon;male;Æthelfrith
saxon;male;Æthelhere
saxon;male;Æthelmaer
saxon;male;Æthelred
saxon;male;Æthelric
saxon;male;Æthelstan
saxon;male;Æthelthryth
saxon;male;Æthelweard
saxon;male;Æthelwine
saxon;male;Æthelwold
saxon;male;Æthelwulf
saxon;male;Æthelwulf

Should all use þ or ð for th.

saxon;male;Elfweard
saxon;male;Elfwine

Very likely should use æsc, as the root 'elf' was a common name component spelled 'ælf.'

Code:
saxon;male;Saexbald
saxon;male;Saexred

Sæxbald and sæxred?

Code:
saxon;male;Swaefred

Swæfred most like.

[/code]saxon;male;Thored
saxon;male;Thurcytel[/code]

Þored and Þurcytel.

Edit: Actually, Ðored and Ðurcytel is probably better if the capital thorn looks as bad in the game as it does on my screen here. Some writers say thorn should be used word-initial instead of eth, but by no means did everyone agree on that, so the rule can be ignored without being inauthentic. And the Þ is really looking crappy here.
 

Veldmaarschalk

Very old guard
Super Moderator
Moderator
149 Badges
Apr 20, 2003
30.027
1.263
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • 200k Club
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • 500k Club
Feel free to make a 'correct' anglo-saxon list. I will gladly put them in my own mod :)
 

LlywelynII

Field Marshal
11 Badges
Oct 8, 2002
4.362
58
Visit site
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
Arkerless said:
And the Þ is really looking crappy here.

I think it's kinda cute. :p

This is a great idea - I've usually just waited for Har's wife to get a county and then played her boy trying to get back the throne of England. This makes it much simpler.

j.
 

Drachenfire

Buckler of Wales
25 Badges
Dec 10, 2004
2.151
0
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Deus Vult
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
Sarmatia1871 said:
Many thanls - let me know when your Welsh expansion has reached a state where it can be included!

Apart from the characters and Kingdom setup, nothing has been changed from the vanilla scenario -> So all the castles are exactly the same as in the standard 1066 scenario. I've made Normandy independant at the scenario start, but again, being part of the "core provinces" of the French Kingdom, it should submit to France fairly quickly...



I have the 1066 Wales start ready. I am attempting to post the scenario this weekend. How would you wish it included? Should I post all the changes here? And you copy and paste them to your scenario?