Engineering is way too important

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Aed

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I'd like to see a system where we only have one science resource, but still have the three tech fields. The player would then use a weighting system to decide what proportion of their science income is dedicated to each field.

I can see a few of benefits to something like the above.
  • It would introduce a nice bit of decision making to the research side of the game. Empires could choose to specialise their tech. It would also make it harder for someone to be preeminent in all tech without having to seriously dedicate their empire to science, as they have be able to out tech even specialised empires.
  • It simplifies resources without reducing depth. As people have said there really isn't a reason to have 3 science resources at the moment, they are mostly UI clutter because we have little control of which tech resource we can generate.
  • Tech treaties might actually become useful again as specialised empires could make deals with those specialised in other fields to help round out their technologies.
  • It is also a reasonable approximation of how actual research works. There is a finite pot of resources and dedicating more to a given field means the others lose out.
 

sortulv

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So, adding a policy that would give a +x to one field and a minus -y to the others? 4 options, one for each field, plus a balanced one (this would be similar to the consumer goods vs alloys for industry)
 

Sigma 582

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Who needs orange weapons anyway? Unless your enemy uses crystal plating, you are better off running with disruptors, cloud lighting and arc emitters buffed with as many energy weapon repeatables as you can churn out (which is helped by black hole observatories). If your enemies have lots of HP and shields, you still can get away with blue weapons by switching to void beam + plasma/proton launchers.

On orange you skip weapon-related research altogether and focus on economy-related buffs (minerals, construction speed/cost), starbases, ship types and maybe robots.
 

Aed

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So, adding a policy that would give a +x to one field and a minus -y to the others? 4 options, one for each field, plus a balanced one (this would be similar to the consumer goods vs alloys for industry)
That would be the quick and dirty way of doing it, in fact I am pretty sure there was a decision/policy that did exactly that in previous versions? Ideally it would just be integrated into the tech screen, so you would have a button next to each field where you could set the weight, with all of them summing up to 100, you get a lot more granularity that way.

There is loads of cool things you could do with it. Like have a sustained heavy investment in a particular field (e.g. >50% for +30 years) give you an additional research bonus, to simulate the critical mass of research expertise that your empire has generated. You could tie that bonus to better chance of getting relevant rare techs, or even gate some ultra-rare techs behind it, so people have an incentive to focus down on a particular path once in a while.
 

EvilTom

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I'd like to see a system where we only have one science resource, but still have the three tech fields. The player would then use a weighting system to decide what proportion of their science income is dedicated to each field.

I can see a few of benefits to something like the above.
  • It would introduce a nice bit of decision making to the research side of the game. Empires could choose to specialise their tech. It would also make it harder for someone to be preeminent in all tech without having to seriously dedicate their empire to science, as they have be able to out tech even specialised empires.
  • It simplifies resources without reducing depth. As people have said there really isn't a reason to have 3 science resources at the moment, they are mostly UI clutter because we have little control of which tech resource we can generate.
  • Tech treaties might actually become useful again as specialised empires could make deals with those specialised in other fields to help round out their technologies.
  • It is also a reasonable approximation of how actual research works. There is a finite pot of resources and dedicating more to a given field means the others lose out.

This sounds like a good solution.

Other games had an excess money slider where you could put currency into research or "entertainment/culture".
Being as at the moment you can stockpile resources and use edicts every X years I don't see much of a difference between a monthly upkeep and it would reduce having to click on it every so often. The slider could have diminishing returns (and work both ways by increasing or decreasing expenditure on empire research point generation).

Also having a a single pool of research means that you could get rid of the three vague areas and change them to core theoretical sciences. I never understood why society research was both biological and society and "engineering" sounded a bit too vague too!

You could have several theoretical core fields (eg: Social Science, Biology, Physics, Chemistry) which you plow "research points". You can use a slider to determine which emphasis you want (with diminishing returns for excessive specialisation unless you have traits, techs, buildings, ethos, modifiers etc)
The amount you put into each theoretical area gives you the speed of research and the type of research cards you have turn up. Research cards can then be "practical" sciences... things like Architecture, Farming, Genetics, Naval Warfare, Energy Fields, Particles, Statecraft etc etc. These cards will be put into research slots and to be researched will consume one or more of the theoretical core research pools.

I would say each civilisation should have 2-4 research slots, as this allows for a measure of concentration, with the ability to add more with time, but I wouldn't think more than 5.

So all of this gives options to generalise or to really throw everything you have after that one technology you REALLY want, but that is expensive... all the while having random cards determine what you get, but you can still mildly influence that. You could even have benefits like (encourage free thinking) mean that you get some out there technologies that are rare.

This is a pretty fundamental change and would take some UI work, but keeps the randomness that the game seems to want
 
Last edited:

permeakra

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1) It includes new spaceships and +10 fleet leadership each time
2) It has bonus to mineral production which is the most important normal resource
3) Probably the reason I decided to open this thread is the weapons... It has anti-shield weapons AND anti-armor missiles, and let's not fool ourselves, you all love missiles.
1) In defensive build it is perfectly possible to solve all your problems early-mid game with corvettes. Battleships and cruisers are still useful for long raids and taking down enemy bases, but pure corvettes are OK for keeping your borders
2) I'm currently into midgame with my peaceful hivemind and I never struggled with minerals. I had much more problems with energy and food (I guess keeping nutritional plenitude running have something to do with it) Pretty certain that trade-oriented build would do well with most CG coming from trade.
3) Unfortunately, all best late-game weapons are in physics and few kinda meh in sociology.

The only setup that needs engineering full stop is machine empires, and they have a civic to boost engineering if they need it.
 

Chieron

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I'd like to see a system where we only have one science resource, but still have the three tech fields. The player would then use a weighting system to decide what proportion of their science income is dedicated to each field.

I can see a few of benefits to something like the above.
  • It would introduce a nice bit of decision making to the research side of the game. Empires could choose to specialise their tech. It would also make it harder for someone to be preeminent in all tech without having to seriously dedicate their empire to science, as they have be able to out tech even specialised empires.
  • It simplifies resources without reducing depth. As people have said there really isn't a reason to have 3 science resources at the moment, they are mostly UI clutter because we have little control of which tech resource we can generate.
  • Tech treaties might actually become useful again as specialised empires could make deals with those specialised in other fields to help round out their technologies.
  • It is also a reasonable approximation of how actual research works. There is a finite pot of resources and dedicating more to a given field means the others lose out.
Somewhat like the Master of Orion way (that was a slider-heavy game). Just prevent over-specialization (technically, pushing 100% into one tech all the time [switching fields between techs] is more efficient than assigning equal amounts into every field constantly as you can utilize new techs earlier).