Enforcement of attack delays for planned orders in 1.1

[Lordban]

First thing you'll want to do is register your game.

There should be a thread in the first few pages of General discussion explaining how to edit your savegame to get back some speed; a number of user-made speed fixes have been posted in User Modifications as well (you need to be registered to access that forum, as well as to Tech Support).


Domaru, that's another nice idea which could warrant some exploration. How heavy it would be in terms of calculations and how hard it would be on the AI I wouldn't know...

 

[Kayapo]

It is a misconception to say this game isn't big. This game uses a LOT of CPU power, there are tons of calculations being done at the same time.

Usually users are comparing this game to big graphic intensive FPS games, those are big on GPU power but not so much on your CPU. In terms of resource usage HOI3 qualifies as a "big" game. It just uses different ones from what you are used to.

I'm not defending the slow speed or lag, just pointing out something I feel is a misunderstanding a lot of people have about this game.

 

[DerKomtur]

The attack delay is a game breaker for me. I just abandoned my game as my advance through belgium took to long.
In the demo (before the enforced attack delay) I almost got to Paris before the demo ended, but now I'm wasting the entire summer for belgium.

My 2cents to the ORG solution: armor should lose little org when moving to enemy provinces, while other forces lose more. (I could extend this: units moving in the wake of panzers dont lose much org either, therefore get rid of the combined arms combat bonus. The combined arms bonus feels too artificial to me.)

I'd really like to register my game, but I bought it via steam so PI locks me out of Tech Support.

 

[GLENN]

The attack delay is one of the best features. It's great!

DerKomtur, read the manual and strategy guide again. Research the appropiate techs.

Re-read combat width and strategy guide.

 

[joeenochs]

The attack delay is one of the best features. It's great!

DerKomtur, read the manual and strategy guide again. Research the appropiate techs.

Re-read combat width and strategy guide.

At least Paradox forgot to give reasonable starting values for this tech in the 1939 scenario and so on. Also, the fact, that this is not in the German spearhead doctrine, but in the Sowjet one, seems kind of broken, because Germany invented Blitzkrieg.

I wish, Johan would drop a small comment on this. Maybe he is just to busy. Or he himself has not made his mind up on this.

 

[unmerged(73411)]

if this isnt changed im not gonna play the game... this is terribly important

 

[joeenochs]

if this isnt changed im not gonna play the game... this is terribly important

No need to not play the game.

You can easily fix this yourself by either researching a tech (eg. in the 1936 scenario) or by editing some file. There is some thread in the mod forum I think about the file name. If you are interested either me oe some guy here will look it up.

 

[Lordban]

common\defines.lua

The values you need to change have been reposted on page 5

 

[DerKomtur]

The attack delay is one of the best features. It's great!

DerKomtur, read the manual and strategy guide again. Research the appropiate techs.

Re-read combat width and strategy guide.

I do not think it is a good feature that my forces are picking their noses for 5 days after a one hour skirmish / probing attack.
And stop your arrogance, GLENN, like "read again". What has combat width to do with attack delay?
And those 5 days already include 2 researches from the appropriate tech. And I doubt this tech is even appropriate as it is in the Human Wave line.

And why does everyone else think: Just mod everything you don't like? I already really like Hoi3, but it seriously needs fixing all over the place. And this issue needs fixing.

 

[Yrsake]

I'd really like to register my game, but I bought it via steam so PI locks me out of Tech Support.

Actually you can register your game even if you bought it via steam. Just use the steam games tab to wiew the hoi3 cd key.

 

[Friedericus Rex]

Just wanted to add my support for the OP. Well written, well argued, in total agreement. Thx for taking the time to voice what many of us think about this issue!

 

[Tharkun]

if this isnt changed im not gonna play the game... this is terribly important

Indeed, no way I will play a game that wants to simulate warfare as it was in WWII, when in fact it simulates warfare as it was in WWI. I will resume playing when this stupid feature is removed from the game and org loss during movement is reinstated.

 

[Friedericus Rex]

Well, in the meantime you can just edit the defines.lua and set delay for ALL attacks to zero. Let's wait for what PI decides to do about it in the next patch, no reason to be all dramatic about it.

 

[Tharkun]

Well, for me it is a game breaking issue.

The solution you proposed is just a temporary half-measure, since I am more interested in multiplayer.

We need the delay when the player has not issued successive attack orders, but not when he has planned a careful offensive through several successive provinces, this essentially kills mobile warfare. Org loss while moving is enough to make the player think and decide if he wants to continue advancing or not.

 

[Friedericus Rex]

Fair enough.

 

[HelmuthM]

I disagree totally with the OP.

Gameplay will be a mess, if there are no attack delays for planned orders. I remember that in HOI2, I had to setup complicated attack routes for each army "just in case" although my basic intention was to conquer only one province. I could always stop the attack order if I didn't want to attack the next province after all.

But if I didn't order the chain of attacks, I would regret it when the enforced attack delay hit.

This gameplay mechanism was totally contrary to real-life warfare, increased micromanagement and led to a vicious save-reload cycle because it was easy to forget cancelling the orders.

 

[Lordban]

Gameplay will be a mess, if there are no attack delays for planned orders. I remember that in HOI2, I had to setup complicated attack routes for each army "just in case" although my basic intention was to conquer only one province. I could always stop the attack order if I didn't want to attack the next province after all.

You really didn't have to give complicated orders to conquer one province.

Besides, setting up complicated routes and planning additionnal orders "just in case" really dpesn't make sense. You don't want a complicated plan to be effective, on the contrary you want it as simple as possible, and you'll want to keep reserves and rely on your air force to deal with the unexpected. You might still have to cancel some orders, but since they'll have been simple ones, odds your units start messing things up completely are very low.

If you planned "just in case", you were doing it totally wrong. It's no wonder it felt like useless micromanagement

 

[HelmuthM]

You really didn't have to give complicated orders to conquer one province. Additionnal orders "just in case" really don't make sense. You don't want a complicated plan to be effective, on the contrary you want it as simple as possible, and you want to keep reserves first and cancel simple orders second to deal with the unexpected.

If you planned "just in case", you were doing it totally wrong. It's no wonder it felt like useless micromanagement

Nope. Often I wanted to attack a province and maybe some province(s) after it. Additional orders just in case do make sense, because if I haven't ordered additional attacks, they will be impossible for a period of time due to the attack delay. Possibly useful additional orders can only benefit the player, if time is spent micromanaging them.

That's why I usually in HOI2, I prepared attack orders from the border all the way to Moscow and Leningrad although I had to cancel those orders later for the great majority of the armies.

 

[Lordban]

It's really a problem with your method of planning, then.

You don't plan for "maybe's" when you give queued-up orders: it's totally inefficient. You plan for specific short-term goals, like the encirclement of southern Ukraine or of the Pripet Marshes. Either you achieve them or you don't; the next direction is another matter, and you'll want to plan it when your forces have had a little time to regroup.

Planning attacks all the way from Poland to Moscow is NOT efficient planning, and it's NOT realistic. You know, at the start of Barbarossa, that you want to push towards Moscow, and you can have an idea of the army groups you'll be using to get there. That's about all you can plan for without taking risks no sane general or commander-in-chief would ever have taken: you know absolutely nothing of what awaits you further down the road, and when you do meet what awaits, THEN, and at the latest then, you should stop your troops and devise new plans.

 

[HelmuthM]

It's really a problem with your method of planning, then.

You don't plan for "maybe's" when you give queued-up orders: it's totally inefficient. You plan for specific short-term goals, like the encirclement of southern Ukraine or of the Pripet Marshes. Either you achieve them or you don't; the next direction is another matter, and you'll want to plan it when your forces have had a little time to regroup.

Planning attacks all the way from Poland to Moscow is NOT efficient planning, and it's NOT realistic. You know, at the start of Barbarossa, that you want to push towards Moscow, and you can have an idea of the army groups you'll be using to get there. That's about all you can plan for without taking risks no sane general or commander-in-chief would ever have taken: you know absolutely nothing of what awaits you further down the road, and when you do meet what awaits, THEN, and at the latest then, you should stop your troops and devise new plans.

I'm not sure if you understand the issue. Because I don't know what awaits you further down the road, I want to give myself the opportunity to attack various provinces without the attack delay. Queuing up attack orders as extensively as possible maximizes my chances for the attacks without the delay. Of course, these orders follow a pattern, e.g. panzer armies linking to finish the Pripet encirclement. If the queued order does not fit my plans, I can cancel it with no penalty.