Energy Credits...Either too many or not enough

[Kayden_II]

What I find happens is during peace when my mega-fleets are docked, im running a pretty hefty surplus.

Soon as I'm at war and everyone's off fighting, I start running a small/mediumish negative.

This (Fleet-Maintenance by Docking versus Fleet-Maintenance by Moving/Fighting/What-Ever) is the Main-Problem ...

Either I have to deactivate Buildings in my Core-Worlds, Which are using Energy-Credits, or I have to produce more Energy-Credits (permanently) in my Core-Worlds than my Fleet is using in its Moving/Fighting/What-Ever-Modus ...
The Option to set the "Financial-Focus" in my Administrative-Sectors isn't a good Solution, because the Administrative-Sectors tend to replace Buildings instead to deactivate Them ...
Currently, I would need more a Function, Which allows my Administrative-Sector-AI to deactivate Buildings to have enough Energy-Credits for such temporary Situations.

 

[doomdude1]

The thing is, the system in the game is reversed. You have a massive minerals stockpile, but you'll always spend minerals. There literally isn't a moment in the game where you won't spend your minerals on a ship, station, colony, sector or whatever. You will always cycle your minerals into stuff.

On the other hand, energy is more of a "reserve" resource. You don't need too much of it during buildup or peace, sans the space stations. You do need large reserves for war, think in today's terms of a nation's oil reserve. The US doesn't keep two tanker trucks full and says "oh well, I'm sure the economy and income can handle it", they stockpile, same as everyone else. With a half decent economical plan, any empire can run a pretty hefty sufficit by the late game and I for one hate to see that +500 energy just go to 100% waste.

Just incrementally increase energy storage, hell you can even decrease the mineral one.

 

[beckermt]

You are missing my point a little bit. When I'm at peace, I'm already running a huge positive. A positive so huge that I quickly hit the cap.
When I goto war, it goes negative.

This is exact the point of the EC system.

War is expensive. By only having 1 resource (see EU4) you just optimize it and you're either totally bankrupt during war or you're making too much cash for it to be relevant. The Stellaris system is actually quite clever, your EC shows your infrastructure limits and your minerals your ability to output new things (e.g. ships).

If you always maintained positive EC flow, then you would simply sit at the cap, because EC is rarely spent (the only thing that comes to mind is Tile Blocker clearing).

If you're not sometimes dipping into the negative EC balance, then you're not playing optimally.

 

[Murmeldjuret]

All my late game wars take me into 0 energy and deficit. As long as I have built up enough troops (the good ones cost energy) it is perfectly fine. Running late game fleets with the intention of running energy surplus is largely unfeasible since the energy gain is what caps fleetsize. You need to run energy surplus with your whole fleet docked or you will be unable to clear tiles and recruit quality troops. During wartime it is largely irrelevant, as the -% minerals is quite low and research won't come into effect during late game wars because upgrades take so long.

 

[Ri0Rdian]

Hey, that's what I say IRL about money too! You either have too much or not enough, never "just enough".

 

[Spectral]

This is exact the point of the EC system.

War is expensive. By only having 1 resource (see EU4) you just optimize it and you're either totally bankrupt during war or you're making too much cash for it to be relevant. The Stellaris system is actually quite clever, your EC shows your infrastructure limits and your minerals your ability to output new things (e.g. ships).

If you always maintained positive EC flow, then you would simply sit at the cap, because EC is rarely spent (the only thing that comes to mind is Tile Blocker clearing).

If you're not sometimes dipping into the negative EC balance, then you're not playing optimally.

I disagree. If you always have more than you need that is not playing optimally.
Optimal would be not too much or too little.

 

[Qoff]

Hey Guys,
I've sank 113 hours into stellaris so far and have played a good few games into the late stage.

I feel like energy credits storage is too limited. I feel like I am either overflowing with energy or am struggling to keep up with requirements.
This is mainly in the mid/late period. Early game the balance is pretty decent.

What I find happens is during peace when my mega-fleets are docked, im running a pretty hefty surplus. Soon as I'm at war and everyone's off fighting, I start running a small/mediumish negative. Because our current 'store' for energy is quite small my effective ability to wage war gets a smaller and smaller window as the game gets into the later stages because my energy store remains the same, while my fleet and incomes grow.

If you compare energy credits directly to mineral credits, you can store a LOT more mineral credits. Despite the fact the gameplay and flow of the game will encourage you to stockpile a lot more energy and NEED a lot more energy when it is required in surplus.

Long story short, I feel like the amount of energy we can store needs to be doubled and we need an ability to store it (like mineral silos) to even further increase it.
I actually find it quite funny that you can build silos to boost mineral storage. I dont think my minerals ever go over about 2k, im constantly spending them as they come in.

Thoughts?

The best way for credits I found when you have a large empire is to build solar plants in all of your planets (you can build it in sectors).

 

[Sahuagin]

I sort of don't like the caps either, since they're kind of a band-aid fix to a real problem.

but the too much or too little energy problem, really that's the whole point of that resource. you're supposed to balance things just right, keeping it just above zero. if it's too high or too low, then *you've* over extended yourself or under used your resource.

the later game problem of so many resources you can barely spend it all is different.

 

[Spectral]

I sort of don't like the caps either, since they're kind of a band-aid fix to a real problem.

but the too much or too little energy problem, really that's the whole point of that resource. you're supposed to balance things just right, keeping it just above zero. if it's too high or too low, then *you've* over extended yourself or under used your resource.

the later game problem of so many resources you can barely spend it all is different.

Ok lets say I have an empire of 400 planets and a fleet cap of 800.
My fleet is roughly 600 naval units.

Keep in mind that fully teched out my energy max storage limit is still 5000.
When all in dock my energy is +250.

Soon as I go into full deployment, it drops to -200.

Do you see where my problem lies? I will max my energy storage in no time at all, then deplete it in no time at all, with no way of increasing this buffer zone. Where minerals on the other hand I can stockpile hugely, despite the fact you are always spending them constantly.

 

[Qwynn]

I was under the impression that hitting 0 EC also drains your fleet's shields, unless that was removed before launch? If it was, then it honestly doesn't matter if you hit 0 EC during a war, because it won't actually have any effect on your ability to finish the war.

 

[Sahuagin]

Ok lets say I have an empire of 400 planets and a fleet cap of 800.
My fleet is roughly 600 naval units.

Keep in mind that fully teched out my energy max storage limit is still 5000.
When all in dock my energy is +250.

Soon as I go into full deployment, it drops to -200.

Do you see where my problem lies? I will max my energy storage in no time at all, then deplete it in no time at all, with no way of increasing this buffer zone. Where minerals on the other hand I can stockpile hugely, despite the fact you are always spending them constantly.

yeah, the late game economy is not very well designed

 

[Qoff]

The first tech I research is Solar Plant, if you have it in all of your planets, let's say you have 100 planets:

100*3 = 300
Let's assume that they're all in Sectors and the Sectors are set at 75%
300*75% = 225

So you have 225 bonus energy that you can actually control from Sectors since you can control the Hangar.

 

[Spectral]

yeah, the late game economy is not very well designed

Agreed and the whole point of my thread.
Although its not perfect and easy fix is allowing us to build "Battery Silo's" or something.
A building that increases energy storage capacity.

 

[Spectral]

The first tech I research is Solar Plant, if you have it in all of your planets, let's say you have 100 planets:

100*3 = 300
Let's assume that they're all in Sectors and the Sectors are set at 75%
300*75% = 225

So you have 225 bonus energy that you can actually control from Sectors since you can control the Hangar.

Generating energy isn't the point.
But for what its worth I already know about using solar panels on all space stations. In the late game its pretty important, saving a good 1-2 planets on energy generation (which can instead be used for research or the more critically spent minerals).

 

[Elfwind]

Also where is civilian trading and why aren't we taxing it?

 

[Zwirbaum]

The first tech I research is Solar Plant, if you have it in all of your planets, let's say you have 100 planets:

100*3 = 300
Let's assume that they're all in Sectors and the Sectors are set at 75%
300*75% = 225

So you have 225 bonus energy that you can actually control from Sectors since you can control the Hangar.

Are you aware that Spaceport energy maintenance is actually 3? So Solar Panel Network module balances it out to 0. Not to surplus?

 

[CertusAT]

I'm also not a fan of the extreme jumps energy makes. I wish they would bring more stability into it, so that we know earlier if we are about to get fucked but big deficits.

Which basically means, just increase the baseline of all these hidden costs that sometimes pop up and decrease the upper range of the costs.

 

[nuyu]

At first I'm having this issue also.
My solution is I dedicated all my sectors into Research.

All my core planet are only 25 size and only produce energy.
At year 2350 I still able to produce 150 credit/month after having 70k Fleet.
I think that time my fleet upkeep is almost 400 credit/month.

I Have minerals from my sectors, even all of them are research focus, still can produce enough for my empire.

 

[Balkri]

5k is to small to be the empire maximun storage.

Specialy if you check the sectors, and see that they aparently don't have a limit to energy storage. I have seen my sectors with more than 15k and still goin up.

An option to take flat amount of energy/minerals from sectors could realy help with this. Tax is maxed at 75%, but even with that my sectros can still pass way over the 15K reserves in the late game.

Meanwhile i jump from 5000+250 monthly to -150 monthly for mobilizing my three fleets of 30k in 3 diferent directions to fight 3 diferent enemies. [this is with over 150 plannets, and all sectors dedicated to energy, and guess what, a lot of my sectors are with 15, 16 and even 18k of energy, and still going up]

 

[PPolo]

You can spend EC on Terraforming, but terraforming is useless