Enemy building in your system

[kalauer]

In the last stram we saw that the enemy was building wormhole Station all over Blorg space. I would ahve thought this was disallowed? To build in enemy controlled space? At war?

Can someone imagine why this is possible? I understand that I as a player would just have to save one small corvette and send it to the stations, but why can't the game abstract some local forces that disallow unarmed enemy ships to build in my system?

I would say that if the enemy wants to build there, he'd better first conquer the planet.

 

[kgaa]

Those were systems without planets in them. It makes sense that the enemy could build in them, I mean why not?

 

[Jerev]

Why shoudn't it be possible? Setting up outposts in enemy territory is a tactic which is almost always used in wars.

 

[Giacomo1405]

this is probably a balance necessity... imagine this:

a wormhole empire goes to war with a hyperdrive empire;
the hyper empire controls a some systems towards the wormhole empire with outpost, while all his planets are on the other side (outside wormhole range);
when they are at war, the wormhole empire would be unable to invade anything if not allowed to build wh-stations inside enemy territories.

a system that allow wh-empires to reach the core of the enemy (even if with costly and dangerous investment is needed)

 

[Jarac Rassen]

this is probably a balance necessity... imagine this:

a wormhole empire goes to war with a hyperdrive empire;
the hyper empire controls a some systems towards the wormhole empire with outpost, while all his planets are on the other side (outside wormhole range);
when they are at war, the wormhole empire would be unable to invade anything if not allowed to build wh-stations inside enemy territories.

a system that allow wh-empires to reach the core of the enemy (even if with costly and dangerous investment is needed)

This. It also keeps a player on their toes to look for construction ships attempting to build wormhole stations in their space. Except for the challenge or RP, no-one would pick WH if it was too limited in war. It's already limited enough.

WH transportation is a double edged sword. You can avoid the main fleet, sneak behind enemy lines and blow up the WH generators while your fleet wrecks the enemy's home (if you are, say, Warp Drive).

That's what we assume the Blorg did when they went to war with the bird people. While their fleet was away, they jumped into the system and destroyed the WH generator. They couldn’t get back home.

 

[barny]

They probably have to be able to do that when they use wormhole technology.

See it like this: It gives you a good way of burning their minerals or potentially even intercept construction ships.

Then again: Wiz said, that he will take a look at the AI building THAT many wormhole stations, because it seemed to be a little bit of overkill.

 

[doomdude1]

Unless I'm mistaken the guys in the streamer ruled it a bug due to the AI building things in non-occupied space (even no AI fleets present) so I suppose it will be fixed.

 

[puggle999]

Yeah they built them in every system nearby. That's probably a bit much

 

[Beric]

Yeah they built them in every system nearby. That's probably a bit much

If Wiz had been aggressively destroying the wormholes like he should have, then it would NOT have been a bit much. Seriously, they're the only way a wormhole civ can get deep into enemy territory, so destroying them is a great way to ensure the enemy can't strike you where it might hurt a LOT.

 

[Zavaleta]

Question:

Could you use a declaration of war to colonize planets in enemy space? (during wartime)

 

[puggle999]

If Wiz had been aggressively destroying the wormholes like he should have, then it would NOT have been a bit much. Seriously, they're the only way a wormhole civ can get deep into enemy territory, so destroying them is a great way to ensure the enemy can't strike you where it might hurt a LOT.

I disagree, the AI should try and maintain at least two that can send a fleet in but it should be cleverer than relying on the player to destroy them.

 

[S.C. Watson]

In the last stram we saw that the enemy was building wormhole Station all over Blorg space. I would ahve thought this was disallowed? To build in enemy controlled space? At war?

Can someone imagine why this is possible? I understand that I as a player would just have to save one small corvette and send it to the stations, but why can't the game abstract some local forces that disallow unarmed enemy ships to build in my system?

I would say that if the enemy wants to build there, he'd better first conquer the planet.

Why would it be disallowed? I'd love to have soft borders in the game. That shit isn't magically protected. You need active patrols. If I can get in and build anything in enemy (or even allied) space without them knowing about it, you bet your Blorg I'm gonna do it!

 

[Beric]

I disagree, the AI should try and maintain at least two that can send a fleet in but it should be cleverer than relying on the player to destroy them.

As far as I can tell wormholes stations have no defenses. If I were Wiz I would have sent 1 corvette to every constructed wormhole station.

One of the greatest risks as a wormhole player is getting your fleet trapped deep in enemy territory, outnumbered, with all of your wormhole stations blown up. Constructing a large number of wormhole stations is the best way to reduce this risk.

Why would it be disallowed? I'd love to have soft borders in the game. That shit isn't magically protected. You need active patrols. If I can get in and build anything in enemy (or even allied) space without them knowing about it, you bet your Blorg I'm gonna do it!

Personally I agree, but the devs seem to have made borders magical barriers in space and don't plan to change that.

 

[S.C. Watson]

Personally I agree, but the devs seem to have made borders magical barriers in space and don't plan to change that.

I know. Unfortunate, that

 

[Jerev]

Personally I agree, but the devs seem to have made borders magical barriers in space and don't plan to change that.

Well it could be explained that only space stations or outposts within your border range can be suffiently supplied. So building outside of your supply range would be pointless.

 

[kalauer]

Several Points:

- It creates the Need for a lot of micromanagement, if you are fighting against several wormhole-Ai that Keep building stations all over you. Depending on the activity of the enemy, you would have to send small fleets back and forth or have them stationed in every System (which also gets annoying, considering the Outliner and Overall UI). This Looks like it becomes a race of clicking speed against the AI.

- As stated, the AI just burns minerals by doing this. It has no means to defend the construction ships it sends there or the stations. That is no sensible strategy. Would anyone do this, and why? The only reason this strategy yields some benefit for the AI, is that the player does not care, which leads back to the first point.

- We don't know the range of the wormhole stations. There might very well be several stations inside the enemy's territory able to reach inside blorg space. So I can't see how we can be sure that building these stations shall be the only way for wormhole-AI to be able to attack.

And on a more conceptual-Level: How is this "my territory" when unarmed enemy ships can go there and do what they like? I would understand it when they send a strong fleet that protects the construction ship, but not if it is alone.

 

[kalauer]

Please excuse the double post, I forgot to quote in my first response.

Those were systems without planets in them. It makes sense that the enemy could build in them, I mean why not?

Because they are still considered in "my territory". Hence under "my control". If an unarmed ship can build something there, there is not much control.

Why shoudn't it be possible? Setting up outposts in enemy territory is a tactic which is almost always used in wars.

Not by unarmed workers behind enemy lines without armed forces to back them up. And you seem to mistake wormhole stations with Military stations. An analogy to wormhole stations are rather supply Depots. And no, you don't build those behind enemy lines.

 

[Jarac Rassen]

One way to balance the mechanic is to make it to where there's an increased upkeep cost for WH stations outside of your space. In your space, WH stations cost very little to maintain. But if it's outside of your territories, the upkeep needs to go up. If you are in an alliance and you want to build WH Stations in allied space, the upkeep should be treated like it's in your territory.

It'll make players (and hopefully the AI) much more cautious with placement and hopefully curb spamming behavior with WH stations everywhere because you have the minerals.

 

[Korashy]

Question:

Could you use a declaration of war to colonize planets in enemy space? (during wartime)

My guess would be that you can. You might even be able to with military access.

 

[Beric]

Several Points:

- It creates the Need for a lot of micromanagement, if you are fighting against several wormhole-Ai that Keep building stations all over you. Depending on the activity of the enemy, you would have to send small fleets back and forth or have them stationed in every System (which also gets annoying, considering the Outliner and Overall UI). This Looks like it becomes a race of clicking speed against the AI.

Let me tell you, mass-building wormhole stations and the defender doing their best to destroy them WILL become a strategy in multiplayer. Why should the AI not engage in it as well? Personally I think this is something that needs to be automated.

- As stated, the AI just burns minerals by doing this. It has no means to defend the construction ships it sends there or the stations. That is no sensible strategy. Would anyone do this, and why? The only reason this strategy yields some benefit for the AI, is that the player does not care, which leads back to the first point.

Because it gives you complete access to enemy systems, and makes it extremely difficult for that access to be disabled. Remember, wormhole's biggest weakness is the fact that your ability to FTL is tied up in that one station. Building a ton of them eliminates that weakness.

And on a more conceptual-Level: How is this "my territory" when unarmed enemy ships can go there and do what they like? I would understand it when they send a strong fleet that protects the construction ship, but not if it is alone.

If you don't defend your borders, anyone can move across them, even if it's not legal. Heard of a certain North American country that has issues with this?