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Trithemius

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I've managed to pull Aquitaine out of France, and have made it a High Royal Authority Primogeniture.

HOWEVER!
The vassals of my dukes are endlessly starting wars to change duke! I thought my vassals couldn't do this if I had High Authority!?

Is this some weirdness - or is it the faction system going as it should?
 

Gitro

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Vassals can always declare war on their liege for things like independence, and wars started through events like plots to revoke or faction wars can't be stopped, as far as I know.
 

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This is a massive pain in the neck and makes increasing crown authority from low to medium practically worthless since you're not allowed to weigh in on these disputes due to "We cannot join our vassals' wars (except Crusades/Jihads)".

As their liege you should be allowed to use your personal levies to pick a side to support in these wars or at the very least be allowed to indicate your favour for one side or the other (maybe giving a morale bonus to the side you pick).
 

justin6477

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This is a massive pain in the neck and makes increasing crown authority from low to medium practically worthless since you're not allowed to weigh in on these disputes due to "We cannot join our vassals' wars (except Crusades/Jihads)".

As their liege you should be allowed to use your personal levies to pick a side to support in these wars or at the very least be allowed to indicate your favour for one side or the other (maybe giving a morale bonus to the side you pick).

I kind of agree. At least for the "depose the _____" type wars. If they have a claim, it's none of our business. But if they're trying to depose a tyrant, then it's completely our business.
 

Casiru

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I had this problem as the Byzantine Empire, I wanted to change the succession law so my genius would inherit instead of my imbecile but I didn't have my vassals completely at peace once in my 80+ year rule. We should have an option like 'intervene in all realm wars' where we can white peace all current vassal wars and prevent them from starting new ones for a month or so.

Would also love to be able to intervene in wars between my vassals when I'm allied to one of them, really hate seeing my dynasty or the duchess's my sons are married to getting thrown off the throne without my ability to do anything about it. Maybe if we could only use retinues/mercs and the county's we own to fight the wars? Have vassals work like holy orders and they just don't engage at all.

Sigh, between the child rulers you've tutored and duchess's married into your dynasty getting kicked out without a fuss from you... kinda makes it feel like a conquest sim at times.
 

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How about being HRE Emperor having High CA and not ever being able to change to Primogeniture because of this problem.(And your Vassals worship you 80+ opnion)

With High or Absolute CA you should be able to have justifiable imprisonment or claims on titles, or ability to join a War.Something so you can end all of these Stupid little Wars.

Otherwise it's pointless to raise CA above Low.(That gives the power of revoking titles)A few more % in levies from each vassal is basically worthless.
 

icon41gimp

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If you need a war to end for a specific reason then revoke the duke's title, it will typically end the war. You're not supposed to be an omnipotent ruler who can demand a completely placid realm for all eternity. Grow up.
 

perpetualmuse

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Otherwise it's pointless to raise CA above Low.(That gives the power of revoking titles)A few more % in levies from each vassal is basically worthless.
While it does not stop all wars, medium crown authority does stop claim wars which are the majority of the vassal wars. It also has other very strong benefits such as letting you raise a lot more troops; it's certainly far from useless when 10% extra troops can easily mean 30k extra later in the game.
 

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If you need a war to end for a specific reason then revoke the duke's title, it will typically end the war. You're not supposed to be an omnipotent ruler who can demand a completely placid realm for all eternity. Grow up.
well, that makes sense with low CA

but what about absolute CA?
even with absolute CA (whose description is that vassals can't declare war at all, and the flavor description is that the rights of the nobility have been curbed), you STILL can't do jack-squat about faction wars, plot wars, and the like. Even if it clearly says that vassals SHOULDN't be able to declare war at all. Which makes absolute CA absolutely pointless (well, some mods make them do slightly more such as affecting levy sizes, but in vanilla it's basically a suicidal option to pass absolute CA)
 

perpetualmuse

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well, that makes sense with low CA

but what about absolute CA?
even with absolute CA (whose description is that vassals can't declare war at all, and the flavor description is that the rights of the nobility have been curbed), you STILL can't do jack-squat about faction wars, plot wars, and the like. Even if it clearly says that vassals SHOULDN't be able to declare war at all. Which makes absolute CA absolutely pointless (well, some mods make them do slightly more such as affecting levy sizes, but in vanilla it's basically a suicidal option to pass absolute CA)
Absolute crown authority is usually always a bad idea to implement in my experiences as the negative opinions tend to get just a little too high to manage. It's fine if you have a really good ruler, but then as soon as you get some bad luck, die and play as someone poorer, everyone will revolt. It is perhaps a little misleading what the descriptions say, but I don't think that it's a bad thing and I think the game would be worse without vassals being able to plot to gain land under medium CA. Think about how it would be for you under absolute crown authority if you weren't allowed to try to gain land through plotting, your liege was loved by his vassals and you weren't strong enough to fight him...
 

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Absolute crown authority is usually always a bad idea to implement in my experiences as the negative opinions tend to get just a little too high to manage. It's fine if you have a really good ruler, but then as soon as you get some bad luck, die and play as someone poorer, everyone will revolt. It is perhaps a little misleading what the descriptions say, but I don't think that it's a bad thing and I think the game would be worse without vassals being able to plot to gain land under medium CA. Think about how it would be for you under absolute crown authority if you weren't allowed to try to gain land through plotting, your liege was loved by his vassals and you weren't strong enough to fight him...
to be fair, the point of absolute CA is that vassals shouldn't be able to declare war in the first place.
Of course, things get slightly more complicated if you're an empire since vassal kingdoms have their own crown laws
of course, faction-wars against the liege should still be "allowable", but wars between direct vassals should be completely disabled, and consequently plots and factions that do so (although wars within vassal kingdoms with low CA should still be allowable)
 

Hootieleece

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Like I was Saying I was a beloved Emperor with Everyone worshipping the ground I walked on.(80+ vassal opinion)with High CA would have been able to raise to Absolute with ease.All I want is to stop the Wars for a day.....so i can change the succession law.I meet every requirement but NO VASSALS FIGHTING EACH OTHER!

Generally that extra 30k of levies is just overkill any way......most will die of attrition before getting to warzone.

I'm fighting wars with Retinue 15k,personal levies 10k, and 2-3 vassal levies another 15-25 k.(I'm not trying to conquer map) More than enough for rebel bashing or duchy snatching.

If i raise all levies I have 250k men.

I think I would have enough power and legalism to tell them to end the War.King's(Kaiser)Peace.......
 

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Like I was Saying I was a beloved Emperor with Everyone worshipping the ground I walked on.(80+ vassal opinion)with High CA would have been able to raise to Absolute with ease.All I want is to stop the Wars for a day.....so i can change the succession law.I meet every requirement but NO VASSALS FIGHTING EACH OTHER!

Generally that extra 30k of levies is just overkill any way......most will die of attrition before getting to warzone.

I'm fighting wars with Retinue 15k,personal levies 10k, and 2-3 vassal levies another 15-25 k.(I'm not trying to conquer map) More than enough for rebel bashing or duchy snatching.

If i raise all levies I have 250k men.

I think I would have enough power and legalism to tell them to end the War.King's(Kaiser)Peace.......
the best way to minimize fighting is to create kingdom titles and distribute them. that way you are less likely to have direct vassals at war
...
or I might be wrong :laugh:

anyway, it's not like your realm will be eternally having an internal war daily. even in my current ERE game with 600+ realm holdings, there will be the occasional moment wherein things are quiet empire-wide
that is when you're free to put the law to a vote
 

Hootieleece

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Super King died not long after the 10 year mark......son not so good had to do some politicking to make the faction war and rebel problem manageable.
Only 2 dukes rebelled.one when I tried to imprison his excommunicated ass and my Bastard Half Brother just being a d$%&.I have survived 10 years but have decided just to run on Medium CA and keep getting Elected till end of game.......its 1305, about 5 more Kings.

Realms size 560. I wish it was smaller.....I hate the Iberia and N. Africa holdings.
 

Casiru

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The problem is we aren't even getting a day since many dukes/counts early game start wars they cannot finish as they cannot siege the province with the amount of troops they can raise. They just sit in war for as long as possible then white peace (if they are even forced to WP eventually...) while some other vassal is fighting.
When your fighting near constant wars against the caliphs not having a way to pass succession changes is overkill.
 

Trithemius

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(Dammit! I always forget about multiquote until it is too late! Sorry for the thread-padding! :( )

If you need a war to end for a specific reason then revoke the duke's title, it will typically end the war. You're not supposed to be an omnipotent ruler who can demand a completely placid realm for all eternity. Grow up.

I appreciate the challenge of the game (although your tone is a trifle forward...) - but it does seem to make a mockery of crown authority! If there was an option to discourage vassals from doing this via diplomacy (with repercussions like Tyranny or wider revolts) or to intervene on the part of "favourites" or to imprison people it might be better.

My problem with your revocation solution is that I want to keep my dukes! That is why I chose them!

One solution - albeit a bit late for me (and many of us!) is to NOT keep your dukes weak. If you give a duke 2-3 counties (depending on duchy size) they should be able to keep more than 50% of the levy total of their vassals which might prevent unstoppable faction-driven wars.

Absolute crown authority is usually always a bad idea to implement in my experiences as the negative opinions tend to get just a little too high to manage. It's fine if you have a really good ruler, but then as soon as you get some bad luck, die and play as someone poorer, everyone will revolt. It is perhaps a little misleading what the descriptions say, but I don't think that it's a bad thing and I think the game would be worse without vassals being able to plot to gain land under medium CA. Think about how it would be for you under absolute crown authority if you weren't allowed to try to gain land through plotting, your liege was loved by his vassals and you weren't strong enough to fight him...

Wel,. you'd need to be able to invite other rulers into your plot to overthrow him! I am really looking forward to being able to form "factions" between independent rulers in order to put friends on the thrones of minor countries. The option to be a disloyal vassal and invite your kings enemies into backing your attempt to bite off chunks of his kingdom should also be a possibility?

the best way to minimize fighting is to create kingdom titles and distribute them. that way you are less likely to have direct vassals at war
...
or I might be wrong :laugh:

anyway, it's not like your realm will be eternally having an internal war daily. even in my current ERE game with 600+ realm holdings, there will be the occasional moment wherein things are quiet empire-wide
that is when you're free to put the law to a vote

In the Kingdom of Aquitaine, with three ducal vassals, two of the three had claim-related factionally-driven wars at any given time...


The problem is we aren't even getting a day since many dukes/counts early game start wars they cannot finish as they cannot siege the province with the amount of troops they can raise. They just sit in war for as long as possible then white peace (if they are even forced to WP eventually...) while some other vassal is fighting.
When your fighting near constant wars against the caliphs not having a way to pass succession changes is overkill.

... and this is exactly what happened - they bash each other in the first battle and lack the troops to besiege either's demesne successfully waiting for the white-peace out option. And then another one pops up halfway through waiting for this to happen.

I guess I just need to make my dukes a bit more powerful so that a couple of counts can't take them down! (Gascogne was, but the clever plotters waiting until he was overseas on a Crusade..)
 
Last edited:

Malibu Stacey

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... and this is exactly what happened - they bash each other in the first battle and lack the troops to besiege either's demesne successfully waiting for the white-peace out option. And then another one pops up halfway through waiting for this to happen.

I guess I just need to make my dukes a bit more powerful so that a couple of counts can't take them down! (Gascogne was, but the clever plotters waiting until he was overseas on a Crusade..)

This is super irritating. The AI stalemates in wars far too often and for far too long (by stalemate I mean sit there doing nothing with troops raised for decades waiting for a white peace) when it's relatively small factions fighting each other (1 or 2 counties).
In my current game I had more than 50% of the counties in Ireland & thus created the Kingdom of Ireland so I could vassalise or conquer those who resisted vassilisation using de jure kingdom casus belli.
2 of the counties I wanted to vassalise were fighting each other for decades in game but by fighting I mean sitting with raised troops and not doing anything. One had 1k+ troops, the other 72 but all it's holdings in the county occupied by the enemy, thus couldn't siege to reclaim them with only 72 troops and because it was one of those annoying factional wars I couldn't even wade in on one side. To break the deadlock I used my CB to go to war on the county with the 1k troop stack, sieged the occupied holdings in the other county to free them then sieged the county itself after wiping it's 1k+ troop stack with ease.

The only thing you can hope for is that the counts/dukes get enough support from allies that the war will be decided one way or the other but this is no help when they are balkanised like in Ireland.