• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

nachinus

Homo ludens
73 Badges
Dec 27, 2002
6.581
2.573
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Hearts of Iron II: Beta
  • Pride of Nations
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Achtung Panzer
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • East India Company
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
This is something introduced in 2.32 that has made the alliance and war thing crazy. I'll try to structure a bit the consequences of this change and why I think this is a bug or a feature that has not been adequately thought.

1. Once a war starts, the original warring countries can call their allies. This is normal and the way it always worked in EU series.

2. Then, the allies of the original warring countries can also call their allies bringing countries that have no relation with the conflicting nations to the war. This is NOT normal and didn't work this way before.

3. Then these 3rd countries can also call their allies, and those theirs, and those theirs, and so on ad nauseam.

4. The result can be that a country that have no relation with the original conflict are involved in it, and that may even be enemies of the country they are fighting for.

This funny thing happened to me yesterday. I'm playing SEL, being sworn enemy of Egypt, warring against them again and again. After a Egyption civil war (started with my intrigur help) Cyprus gobernor secedes (with my 'help' inducing disloyalty). EGY calls their allies to war against Cyprus. They call Bitinia, who calls Pontus, who calls Epirus, who calls me. :confused: . So I'm fighting a war supporting my enemies against a country that I actually endorse. Even better, I'm made the alliance leader!!. Of course, I just offer a white peace and settle the matter. :rolleyes:

It's a pity, because in 2.32 AI countries are really clever when seeking alliances, and the diplomatic world seems more lively than before. But this alliance virus makes things absurd. Specially since you don't have any reason to decline calls to arms.

Suggested solution: As always, only the allies of the original countries should be selectable to be called to arms. Exception: any country should be always able to call their allies that are also tributaries to their wars, even if the tributary is not allied to the original warring state.
 
Upvote 0

unmerged(189088)

Sergeant
4 Badges
Jan 5, 2010
72
0
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
I also agree to classifying this as a bug, a terrible one. To me, what's really annoying is when you end up, due to these "chain reactions", with nations that are at war with BOTH original countries.
 

Wave

Rocker moth
61 Badges
Sep 12, 2009
946
34
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Semper Fi
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Magicka
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • BATTLETECH
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Magicka 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 Sign-up
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
In normal Rome it's pain in the ass if you are at war against ANY greek cultured country, that means you are screwed because EVERYTHING east of dalmatea - cyreneica line will be at war with you.

Well, throw in 200 new nations or however many there were added in Magna terra mod, when I put my mouse on the sword sign to see my enemies (I was parthia which is placed even eastern than it was in vanilla) I had 4 LINES of enemies, my original enemy was some TPM next to me but because the cultures are (in my opinion) screwed in Magna Terra I had EVERY non-gallic tribe against me. well, that gangbang ended up surprisingly and I managed to take a nice slice of land during the war, the original TPM was called to arms against someone else and it became over 5 provinces big, one big nation had civil war and lost 3 provinces to revolted countries, those who came from Black sea killed themselves with attrition and a few 30 unit barbarian hordes who were woken up :D:D

After I had ceased I had WE 4,8 or something like that but my neighbor who was DoW'd by Mauryan empire (pretty much like double-sized indian blue Seleucids) had to continue war, other thing I noticed is that the several countries (including those two) have been at war for tens of years and nations have +10 revolt risk by war exhaustion.

I guess we'll be waiting for patch... Or could it be these thing are caused by mod?
 

nachinus

Homo ludens
73 Badges
Dec 27, 2002
6.581
2.573
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Hearts of Iron II: Beta
  • Pride of Nations
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Achtung Panzer
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • East India Company
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
More alliance crazyness:

-As Viriato already described, I'm witnessing countries that are at war with both sides of the conflict as a result of the alliance vortex of doom.

-Also, AI doesn't seem to consider ongoing wars when offering/accepting alliances. I've seen a country break an alliance because it didn't want to join its allies war, then offer alliance again, then break it again for the same reason, then offer again, then break it... until the relations are so lo that they can't ally any longer. Crazy.
 

Cheexsta

Veni, vidi, vici
60 Badges
Dec 22, 2005
2.894
59
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis: Rome Collectors Edition
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria 2
I have to agree with the others, this bug is incredibly annoying. The Call to Arms function shouldn't work if the target isn't directly allied to the original participants in the war, IMHO.
 

Wizzington

Game Director (Victoria 3)
Paradox Staff
41 Badges
Nov 15, 2007
12.513
137.622
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Sengoku
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
  • Majesty 2
  • Magicka
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Deus Vult
  • East India Company
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Divine Wind
  • For The Glory
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Prison Architect
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
Please, please undo this. The AI doesn't understand it at all and it's extremely poorly balanced for all the reasons above.

Suggested solution: As always, only the allies of the original countries should be selectable to be called to arms. Exception: any country should be always able to call their allies that are also tributaries to their wars, even if the tributary is not allied to the original warring state.

I would also add that when you DOW a tributary, the overlord should be permitted to call in their allies like it works in EU3 so you can't exploit tributaries to avoid fighting an alliance bloc.
 

Dannevirke

Captain
93 Badges
Apr 29, 2004
412
0
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Pirates of Black Cove
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Warlock 2: Wrath of the Nagas
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Elven Legacy Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Pride of Nations
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Ancient Space
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
A quote from the EU3 chain, post #139 by one of the developing team:

Quote Originally Posted by Alerias
World Wars arent the answer.

This I agree with, and is why I agree that the system needs some tweaking.

Quote Originally Posted by Alerias
Its OK for the AI to build alliances against the player but we should know ahead of time who we are risking war with when we DoW.

But this I don't agree with. Why should you know this beforehand? Did everyone one who was gonna end up in the war in the Livonian War, the Thirty Years War, the Deluge, etc. Or what participants would switch sides in said wars? No. So why should the player? Going to war is always a risk, and has never really been one in EU.

End of quote.

It's obvious that it's Paradox' intention to make wars more difficult for any aggressive party (funnily enough most often the player - who is at the same time the most intelligent party in the game :)) and something you have to enter into with caution.

Meaning that it's a new thing they're trying out and that there are bound to be a range of errors and tweaks that need to be done (in EUR keeping the greeks from ganging up on anyone that declares a war is definitely one!), so we just need to be patient and wait for the next patch which probably won't remove cascading alliances, but will attempt to manage them somehow.

Some of you may already be fully aware of this, but I wasn't till I read the chain and understood what Paradox was trying to do. Honestly, I like it! But it needs serious tweaking and bug checking... Waiting for the patch :D