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Shinros

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Gotta raise loyalty with him too, I've seen him requiring rank 4 in some playthroughs. That means speak properly, do all quests requiring judgment, talk to him, etc.

Perhaps I am always max loyalty with Tunon since my PC's are quite lawful and they glare a lot Tunon does bring it up in trial if you glare a lot to npc's.

Perhaps tunon is more inclined to believe you since you act in a orderly manner I mean if you want to pass his trial you gotta have high approval as well.
 

wimplestiltskin

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Perhaps I am always max loyalty with Tunon since my PC's are quite lawful and they glare a lot Tunon does bring it up in trial if you glare a lot to npc's.

Perhaps tunon is more inclined to believe you since you act in a orderly manner I mean if you want to pass his trial you gotta have high approval as well.
Yeah, this is what I don't get, I'm usually much the same, Silent judge, high lore so I often impress Tunon with my reasoning, but the judgement on the archons he is stubbornly difficult about! lol Maybe I'm just lacking some eveidence or not choosing the right dialogue. I usually don't try to convince him of my interpretation by offer up dispassionate facts only and lore prompted dialogue. I'm sure I'll get there at some point.
 

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As for Bleden Mark (and thanks for the lore!) I honestly am not sure he "loves his master".

There are indicators that he fears Kyros, that he wants to assassinate them again. He doesn't enjoy the leash - doesn't like to be caged.
To me it seems more like he's doing what he can to enjoy his current standing and his 'work' - which is likely based on his personality and tendency to being a psychopath or sociopath but to me it just doesn't seem like deep down loyalty.

As for Tunon and some of the Archons and faction related situations, I wish the choice options were a little less rigid.
 

Shinros

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Yeah, this is what I don't get, I'm usually much the same, Silent judge, high lore so I often impress Tunon with my reasoning, but the judgement on the archons he is stubbornly difficult about! lol Maybe I'm just lacking some eveidence or not choosing the right dialogue. I usually don't try to convince him of my interpretation by offer up dispassionate facts only and lore prompted dialogue. I'm sure I'll get there at some point.

Also some side quests add to evidence as well disfavored controlled the crossing(conquest) and a forged bound was in the old walls. He asked if I was going to punish him but I helped him escape and told him it's the fault of the garrison and I could bring it up in court to convict ashe.
 

Shinros

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As for Bleden Mark (and thanks for the lore!) I honestly am not sure he "loves his master".

There are indicators that he fears Kyros, that he wants to assassinate them again. He doesn't enjoy the leash - doesn't like to be caged.
To me it seems more like he's doing what he can to enjoy his current standing and his 'work' - which is likely based on his personality and tendency to being a psychopath or sociopath but to me it just doesn't seem like deep down loyalty.

As for Tunon and some of the Archons and faction related situations, I wish the choice options were a little less rigid.
Of course he tells you he cares about his standing and he also tells you that he serves the overlord because he has legal impunity and TONS of contracts and it's clear he likes murder hence why he has no desire to ruin "his" thing with the overlord. I mean he is not loyal for the "right" reasons but next to tunon I would have to say he is the most loyal in a sense to kyros. He is a amoral assassin at the end of the day.

He has been with kyros for over 300 years.

I also imagine he is using the decree in act 3 to "wiggle" out from under tunon.

Some parts of the Anarchy route and other routes where he tries to kill you shows he is reporting/talking to kyros in some form I think. I do think it's also quite interesting that belden mark also handles the recruiting of new Archons along with killing exarchs.

Plus wimple makes the point mark is quite "frosty" with you if you side with rebels. Why? Unless he is still working for the overlord in some form.
 

wimplestiltskin

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Also some side quests add to evidence as well disfavored controlled the crossing(conquest) and a forged bound was in the old walls. He asked if I was going to punish him but I helped him escape and told him it's the fault of the garrison and I could bring it up in court to convict ashe.
That could be it with Ashe, I never made mention of the oldwalls (kinda hypocritical of me if I did!) plus I usually gunned for Nerat!

As for Bleden Mark (and thanks for the lore!) I honestly am not sure he "loves his master".

There are indicators that he fears Kyros, that he wants to assassinate them again. He doesn't enjoy the leash - doesn't like to be caged.
To me it seems more like he's doing what he can to enjoy his current standing and his 'work' - which is likely based on his personality and tendency to being a psychopath or sociopath but to me it just doesn't seem like deep down loyalty.

As for Tunon and some of the Archons and faction related situations, I wish the choice options were a little less rigid.
Yeah, Bleden is somewhat animalistic. I suspect a result of the long life and power of Archons, they become something other than human. Nerat and Ashe suggest as much on defeat. Tunon is the very embodiement of unfeeling, indiscriminant law and justice, cold as iron and twice as unyeilding. Bleden is the quintessential bloodletter. I suspect he has more in common with the beastwomen than most humans.

I also second your sentiments regarding more fluid choices and allegiances. I'm such a stuck record on this issue!
 

Shinros

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That could be it with Ashe, I never made mention of the oldwalls (kinda hypocritical of me if I did!) plus I usually gunned for Nerat!


Yeah, Bleden is somewhat animalistic. I suspect a result of the long life and power of Archons, they become something other than human. Nerat and Ashe suggest as much on defeat. Tunon is the very embodiement of unfeeling, indiscriminant law and justice, cold as iron and twice as unyeilding. Bleden is the quintessential bloodletter. I suspect he has more in common with the beastwomen than most humans.

I also second your sentiments regarding more fluid choices and allegiances. I'm such a stuck record on this issue!

Pretty much mark is the "shadows" itself he is over 300+ lantry says that mark has been serving kyros for almost as long as tunon hence why every other Archon craps their pants when they hear of his name. I assume mark is on the same level of "change" as tunon but I do feel when he speaks with favor he is being honest with you and does like you and your style of justice on the anarchy route.

I can imagine it's like this in kyros palace

Mark (Mark chained to a wall)

Kyros: Who wants a hard contract! You do!

Mark: Begins barking and wagging his tail

If mark was "truly" free you would end up with a lot of dead people I think mark knows this hence why he is fine with his predicament with kyros. Mark appreciate brutal honesty according to Myothis.
 

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@Shinros
I'm not debating that he is working for Kyros in some way or another. And sure, all those benefits work in his favors ... as long as Kyros IS the Overlord. I am simply questioning his true loyalty to them. I'm calling some sick and twisted Stockholm-Syndrome here. :)

@wimplestiltskin
That's actually interesting - I haven't thought about it that way but it does make a lot of sense.
 

Aramintai

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Plus wimple makes the point mark is quite "frosty" with you if you side with rebels. Why? Unless he is still working for the overlord in some form.
I currently am on anarchy route and I must say he really is a psychopath loner who loves killing and who saw the same potential in Fatebinder. I mean, really, all I'm doing in that playthrough is amassing power through artifacts for my greedy self and slaughtering everyone. No compromises, no alliances, not even an option. Just as Bleden likes, as he sees allies as enemies in waiting. With rebels, on the other hand, there are lots of options for allies and it makes for the most relaxed playthrough, morally speaking. I can actually play as a good guy and Kyros trying to kill me in the end at least is logical and expected. Oh, and I too get to lay my hand on those artifacts, so no power lost. ( I think it's gonna be my canon choice)
 

wimplestiltskin

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@Shinros
I'm not debating that he is working for Kyros in some way or another. And sure, all those benefits work in his favors ... as long as Kyros IS the Overlord. I am simply questioning his true loyalty to them. I'm calling some sick and twisted Stockholm-Syndrome here. :)

@wimplestiltskin
That's actually interesting - I haven't thought about it that way but it does make a lot of sense.
Hmm, Verse is also analagous of Nerat, a good chance he started out a brutal schemer, who's power came to define him, rather he define it. Ashe certainly defined his power but was in turn defined by it. There is a definate theme of the restrictions of power, not just responsibilities but the unexpected burdens they don't see our anticipate and how they are shaped by them. I felt Ashes death speech was particularly poignant. I din't much like some of his choices, but hearing his ernest justifications and reasoning. man. that nearly got me. I went from revelling in his demise to feeling a deep sympathy for the guy.

I currently am on anarchy route and I must say he really is a psychopath loner who loves killing and who saw the same potential in Fatebinder. I mean, really, all I'm doing in that playthrough is amassing power through artifacts for my greedy self and slaughtering everyone. No compromises, no alliances, not even an option. Just as Bleden likes, as he sees allies as enemies in waiting. With rebels, on the other hand, there are lots of options for allies and it makes for the most relaxed playthrough, morally speaking. I can actually play as a good guy and Kyros trying to kill me in the end at least is logical and expected. Oh, and I too get to lay my hand on those artifacts, so no power lost.
Rebel path is most developed to be sure, plenty more side quests too. You don't get quite as many artefacts though.
 

Aramintai

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Rebel path is most developed to be sure, plenty more side quests too. You don't get quite as many artefacts though.
Perhaps not, I'm not finished yet. But who needs them when I have so many allies, right? Anarchy route seems sad - all alone with a pile of artifacts, lol. At least it's not as vile as Disfavored and Chorus, though. You simply kill people who get in the way on anarchy, those guys took it to the whole new level. I cringed when I played those, not gonna do so again.
 
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Shinros

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I currently am on anarchy route and I must say he really is a psychopath loner who loves killing and who saw the same potential in Fatebinder. I mean, really, all I'm doing in that playthrough is amassing power through artifacts for my greedy self and slaughtering everyone. No compromises, no alliances, not even an option. Just as Bleden likes, as he sees allies as enemies in waiting. With rebels, on the other hand, there are lots of options for allies and it makes for the most relaxed playthrough, morally speaking. I can actually play as a good guy and Kyros trying to kill me in the end at least is logical and expected. Oh, and I too get to lay my hand on those artifacts, so no power lost. ( I think it's gonna be my canon choice)

Well that's one option I told tunon it was not about greed but necessity mark was correct considering I had two Archons gunning for me made sense I had to learn how to protect myself and gather a power base for myself. The only people I slaughtered were the unbroken(made sense for my PC since he was part of the stalwart campaign) in my run I actually spared quite a lot of the bronze brotherhood even got them to like me I comprised with a lot of people.

Hence why I like the anarchy route you have the choice to slaughter majority of the people or not.

I even returned the magebane in act 3 after I was done with it did not need it anymore if you keep it Tunon brings it up of course. Plus myothis told me to start acting like an Archon in act 2 reputation = power fear and love many factions loved and hated me.

edit: I felt the anarchy route helped me do that and define myself rather than the army I sided with defining me. Mark even tells you

since you are doing the anarchy run I will tag it

He tells you in act 3 he was mentoring you into becoming a proper Archon hence why what Tunon tells you in act 2 about Archon recruitment and what belden mark was doing started to make the gears in my head turn.

Also mark is my favorite npc next to Tunon and he is a good general lore dump about what is going on in the tiers.
 
Last edited:

Aramintai

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Well that's one option I told tunon it was not about greed but necessity mark was correct considering I had two Archons gunning for me made sense I had to learn how to protect myself and gather a power base for myself. The only people I slaughtered were the unbroken in my run I actually spared quite a lot of the bronze brotherhood even got them to like me I comprised with a lot of people.
Dunno, I walked into Lethian's Crossing in the beginning and Bronze Brotherhood just ganged up on me, even though Raetomonn allowed me to pass, maybe a bug? Same with Unbroken, no chance to parley. Chorus in the Library were uncooperative as well. Looking forward to no options but to kill in the Stone Sea as well, sigh.
Besides all that, that Gather Artifacts story seems pretty weak in comparison to others. If it was the only one in this game I'd imagine it'd scored much lower in reviews.
 

Shinros

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Dunno, I walked into Lethian's Crossing in the beginning and Bronze Brotherhood just ganged up on me, even though Raetomonn allowed me to pass, maybe a bug? Same with Unbroken, no chance to parley. Chorus in the Library were uncooperative as well. Looking forward to no options but to kill in the Stone Sea as well, sigh.
Besides all that, that Gather Artifacts story seems pretty weak in comparison to others. If it was the only one in this game I'd imagine it'd scored much lower in reviews.

If you talk to Raetomonn first he warns you someone put a hit on you(Most likely nerat since he has dealt with them before) and to be careful hence everyone attacks you when you enter.
 

wimplestiltskin

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Well that's one option I told tunon it was not about greed but necessity mark was correct considering I had two Archons gunning for me made sense I had to learn how to protect myself and gather a power base for myself. The only people I slaughtered were the unbroken(made sense for my PC since he was part of the stalwart campaign) in my run I actually spared quite a lot of the bronze brotherhood even got them to like me I comprised with a lot of people.

Hence why I like the anarchy route you have the choice to slaughter majority of the people or not.

I even returned the magebane in act 3 after I was done with it did not need it anymore if you keep it Tunon brings it up of course. Plus myothis told me to start acting like an Archon in act 2 reputation = power fear and love many factions loved and hated me.

edit: I felt the anarchy route helped me do that and define myself rather than the army I sided with defining me. Mark even tells you

since you are doing the anarchy run I will tag it

He tells you in act 3 he was mentoring you into becoming a proper Archon hence why what Tunon tells you in act 2 about Archon recruitment and what belden mark was doing started to make the gears in my head turn.
Yeah I kinda felt this way. The rebels felt too, nice. lol I tried really hard to behave in a "I'm your new overlord" kind of way but it just wasn't working. Atleast with anarchy, while I couldn;t get the allies in the way I wanted, I could be the dick that I wanted lol

@Aramintai you may be running into a bug or two with quest progression. I experienced a couple on both my disfavoured and anrachy run when I perfomed certain quests outside of the sequence that was intended. It would lock out certain dialogue options that made certain quest incompleteable without resorting to bloodshed. Hopefully they will get sorted soon.
 

Shinros

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Yeah I kinda felt this way. The rebels felt too, nice. lol I tried really hard to behave in a "I'm your new overlord" kind of way but it just wasn't working. Atleast with anarchy, while I couldn;t get the allies in the way I wanted, I could be the dick that I wanted lol

Indeed, my PC had room to deal justice in his own way he told mark the exact same thing and he approved and it's largely clear he hates nerat and ashe and finds them useless.
 

Shinros

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Not a bug then.

Yup, mark does warn you that nerat and ashe wants you dead hence why you need to grow and prepare if you are going to be handling itself. Plus I can still punish the disfavored in the stone sea for what they are trying to do.

When tunon asks you why you did what you tell him out of the gate both armies were inept at their task which is actually a crime in the trial lol.

Also my character would never side with rebels.
 

Aramintai

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Personally I love stories like rebel route or Dragon Age: Origins where you labor to gather an army of allies and in an epic battle defeat big bad evil. Too bad there's no such battle in Tyranny as of now. Seems pointless, unless sequel or DLC comes out.