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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

GhostKiller01

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Hello fellow Ex-Fatebinders, Archons of the Tiers, killers of at least a Archon, collectors of Edicts, Rulers of the Spires, Destroyers of Regions and Realms, Killers of Bloodlines, Restorers of Plains, and Proclaimers of Edicts.
We have (if you finished the game at least once), defied Kyros' will by proclaiming an Edict on his soldiers and forcing them to fall back for the first time in History. I am saddened that I was compelled to kill some of the Archons, especially the Archon of Shadows as I really didn't want to kill him and tried to find a way to have the duel not be to the death, but there's still the slight doubt that well... he's watching you from the shadows.
Anyways, I am sad that Kyros has to order in an army to try and take the Tiers from me. I had hoped that I could continue serving him as the Archon of Spires or something, but I couldn't. Anybody else feel that the ending could have improved?
 
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Shinros

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If you want the highest chance of having mark submit to you go the solo path. I got tunon and Mark to submit to me as vassals even told Tunon I am style loyal to kyros justice and conquest when I was on trial.
 

kuneus

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I was rather disappointed with the ending as well. The whole way I was proclaiming that I will bring Overlords will to the tiers, and my followers just up and decide that I am leading a rebellion against the Overlord.

Honestly when Thunon agreed to be my vassal ecstatic, but I when he started spouting stuff like "you are greater than the overlord!" what I really wanted to do was slap him down with a big helping of "hold your horses there Che Guevara!"

Did I miss a point where I could have re-asserted my allegiance to Overlord, or is the rebellion the only choice?
 

Shinros

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I was rather disappointed with the ending as well. The whole way I was proclaiming that I will bring Overlords will to the tiers, and my followers just up and decide that I am leading a rebellion against the Overlord.

Honestly when Thunon agreed to be my vassal ecstatic, but I when he started spouting stuff like "you are greater than the overlord!" what I really wanted to do was slap him down with a big helping of "hold your horses there Che Guevara!"

Did I miss a point where I could have re-asserted my allegiance to Overlord, or is the rebellion the only choice?

I suspect we will only make our intentions known when we finally meet the overlord. They do make the express point if kyros did not want the PC around for some reason kyros would of had you killed ages ago.

So I think kyros has some strange other plan in mind. I don't think the developers would give the option for the PC to say they still believe in kyros conquest and laws when on trial by tunon.
 
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kuneus

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I suspect we will only make our intentions known when we finally meet the overlord. They do make the express point if kyros did not want the PC around for some reason kyros would of had you killed ages ago.

So I think kyros has some strange other plan in mind.

That meeting will be hell of an awkward though.

"Greetings Overlord! I wish to proclaim my allegiance to you!
Sorry about the whole bit about me Edicting half of you army to bits and making you look weak in the eyes of the entire world. My bad, but that was the only way to end the game."
 
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Shinros

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That meeting will be hell of an awkward though.

"Greetings Overlord! I wish to proclaim my allegiance to you!
Sorry about the whole bit about me Edicting half of you army to bits and making you look weak in the eyes of the entire world. My bad, but that was the only way to end the game."
Thing is though kyros sent both armies to die in the tiers, kyros knew they would never work together or for one army to come out on top. On the solo path the elder court binder you write to about your situation says your powers are pretty much identical to an Archon(before it becomes official) and that if kyros wanted you dead you would be dead right now. Mark also says that kyros murders Archons before their powers manifest if kyros does not want them around when you are working with him on the solo run. (Mark also reports directly to kyros going by the short story)

Plus then Kyros makes you an Archon in official capicity even with her/his insignia as your badage of office and then decree's only one Archon can rule the tiers. I dunno this just seems kinda fishy to me and the PC can state they still believe in kyros conquest and laws during tunons trial well that's what I said.

Mark also makes the point if you have high favor and on the solo path and tells tunon that he only put the PC on trial because he is scared that he will lose favour with Kyros and the PC might become the new "favorite".

I dunno this whole thing seems strange to me putting together the elder fate binder letters and what mark says to you on the solo path made me think that kyros has planned this shit in advance or the PC is a new "piece" on the board. Or kyros might be using you to deal with troublesome archons or bring them to heel they make the express point that that Archon of ruin (who is terrible for peace time) had her army dismantled and now suddenly kyros is sending her and reformed plagueborn to the tiers.

The elder fatebinder also says it's likely that kyros told mark to keep his eye on me and to leave it up to him whether he should kill me or not and she advises me to stay in his good graces. He reports directly to kyros and he has no faction banner plus he has Kyros symbol as a tattoo maybe his approval might be tied to kyros if we ever meet her in the future.

Honestly I think we just have to wait and see.

You know what I will write up her letter for people to see.
 
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Shinros

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I did the solo path and I assume she has different letters for different paths here I go. If people want me to I can write out the whole letter chain you ask her a lot of questions on your current situation.

She also says in another letter during the execution edict aka act 1 Kyros also intended for someone to take the spire she also said if kyros did not know what would happen that would be a massive underestimatation of the overlord's long view.

Dear Myothis (This is the PC)

Thank you for weighing in all of this, To ask perhaps too obvious question... if I am such an anomaly, such a threat why hasn't the overlord dealt with me right away? An edict or a simple request to bladen mark would be no small threat... neither seems to have happened yet.

What is your take on this? Why hasn't kyros dealt with me?

-Melchiah

Response

Archon Melchiah (Yes she calls you that before it becomes official since you describe the spires and whats happening she determines you are an Archon which is true lol)

Allow me to address you by a title before it becomes fashionable to do so - I pride myself as a woman to stay ahead of the trends.

Why kyros smites others and allows others to exist is a question we all ponder. The Overlord can certainly appear arbitary and if I've learned anything, that's the point Kyros is intentionally aloof and distant - both in matters of personal security and because if you have to wrangle the most powerful entities of Terratus, you'd need to keep them from getting too comfortable.

To me the most obvious answer is that kyros knows EXACTLY what you are doing(I believe mark is reporting what you are doing to kyros since he helps you on this path on the solo run oh and she says exactly in CAPS in the letter) - she probably approves of your actions and is likely working at every opportunity to create a situation where you think you are working for your own self - interest while satisfying her ambitions as well.

You have to consider an important detail: there is nowhere left in Terratus to conquer now that the tiers are in the overlords grasp. What would the great generals do in a time of peace? The voice of nerat is barely tolerable when you have need of a spy master, why keep around such a monster when you no longer have need for such a gruesome weapon?

I would argue it is in kyros interest that the tiers be a costly invasion that claims the lives of many Archons as possible - not enough meat on the tiers to keep too many sharks sated for long.(remember kyros decree in act 3!)

Kyros ordered everyone to take ascension hall or die - the "or die" must of been the acceptable option correct? If I hazard a guess I'd say you have the unspoken backing of the overlord - it's not like Bladen Mark can't find you whenever he wants.

-Myothis

Also I recall mark tells you that kyros prefers to have the Archons she does not want around killed by him before their powers manifest. (Which in our case did not happen since we manifest our powers when our tower gets attacked.)

Now think about the Archon that is coming for us in the end Lantry said it's the Archon of ruin his power is of plague an disease his army of plagueborn was dismantled when kyros pretty much took over the whole land due to her army sucking for peace time. Think why is kyros sending that Archon to the tiers? An Archon that has no use for a world of peace? Now I am not sure if you get this letter chain on other paths but considering the wording I think it's for the solo path.

Plus kyros making you an official Archon even with your on kyros insignia she decreed each Archon in the tiers to make the others submit or kill them looking at this letter now. You can only use the lesser powered edicts in the tiers and kyros is sending an Archon of ruin and an army of plagueborn to the tiers of all places. Do also remember the tiers is essentially a back water.
 
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ringhloth

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I was also disappointed by the "you have to betray (?) Kyros" part of the end. While I eventually came to terms with it, and I felt every single other part of the ending was really strong (the trials were so great! I had goosebumps when my companions spoke on my behalf!), I think that I would have preferred any way to bend the knee to Kyros, even if it ended in my death.
 

Shinros

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I was also disappointed by the "you have to betray (?) Kyros" part of the end. While I eventually came to terms with it, and I felt every single other part of the ending was really strong (the trials were so great! I had goosebumps when my companions spoke on my behalf!), I think that I would have preferred any way to bend the knee to Kyros, even if it ended in my death.
I assume when kyros finally decides to do something you will get the choice the same thing happened to ashe he took on kyros. Kyros captured him after beating him in battle and gave him the choice to serve. The elder court binder makes the express point to gather as much power as possible since that's what Archons do.

I personally believe Kyros wants a powerful Archon to serve her Lantry also makes the point in act 3 it seems really strange that kyros has not tried to kill you before hand. Why allow you to gather so much power and giving you a badge making you an Archon in official capacity?

On the solo path and what lantry says it's getting kinda clear Kyros does not want to kill you. I dunno I am just getting the feeling that kyros is just wanting to see what the new Archon is capable of.

The size of the tiers compared to the vastness of the north kyros could of easily crushed the PC any time but did not. Kyros could of had Mark kill you but she did not why? I dunno.
 

ringhloth

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I assume when kyros finally decides to do something you will get the choice the same thing happened to ashe he took on kyros. Kyros captured him after beating him in battle and gave him the choice to serve. The elder court binder makes the express point to gather as much power as possible since that's what Archons do.

I personally believe Kyros wants a powerful Archon to serve her Lantry also makes the point in act 3 it seems really strange that kyros has not tried to kill you before hand. Why allow you to gather so much power and giving you a badge making you an Archon in official capacity?

On the solo path and what lantry says it's getting kinda clear Kyros does not want to kill you. I dunno I am just getting the feeling that kyros is just wanting to see what the new Archon is capable of.

The size of the tiers compared to the vastness of the north kyros could of easily crushed the PC any time but did not. Kyros could of had Mark kill you but she did not why? I dunno.
Yeah, I see the logic in all of these arguments, and I really want to believe them. The only problem I have is that you cast an edict on the capital, which is presumably incredibly destructive, and I doubt it goes away that quickly. That's different than what Graven Ashe did.
 

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Yeah, I see the logic in all of these arguments, and I really want to believe them. The only problem I have is that you cast an edict on the capital, which is presumably incredibly destructive, and I doubt it goes away that quickly. That's different than what Graven Ashe did.
The difference is your edicts don't last forever they are more like a bomb than anything even if you attacked the capital the PC would not be able to take on the whole of kyros army once they recovered.

Plus it's known kyros bears great power and magic yet did nothing to defend the capital from your edict power going by the ending slides.

Plus at the end kyros decree's that only one Archon can rule the tiers the others have to submit or die.

The thing is kyros intended for someone to find the spire and the PC can state to Tunon that Kyros does not want the edicts to last forever also the point is made when we think we are satisfying our ambitions we are actually doing what kyros wants. The question is what does kyros want? Perhaps in the expansion? Hell the game auto saves just before you cast the edict sooo obsidian might change the ending completely with the expansion/dlc content.

I am going to type out each letter perhaps if we all think and speculate we can figure something out.
 
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ringhloth

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Plus it's known kyros bears great power and magic yet did nothing to defend the capital from your edict power going by the ending slides.
Is it? Kyros isn't shown to have absolute power over edicts - she may be able to cast them more freely, but she can't revoke them except by the power of the edict itself. It seems like these Oldwalls and spires are deeply related to the Overlord's power. The Oldwalls are straight up forbidden, and the Spires are conspicuously not forbidden, so my best guess is that Kyros found a similar artifact, and casts these edicts with help of this. I wonder if Kyros is just a time travelling you. That'd be an awful twist.
 
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Is it? Kyros isn't shown to have absolute power over edicts - she may be able to cast them more freely, but she can't revoke them except by the power of the edict itself. It seems like these Oldwalls and spires are deeply related to the Overlord's power. The Oldwalls are straight up forbidden, and the Spires are conspicuously not forbidden, so my best guess is that Kyros found a similar artifact, and casts these edicts with help of this. I wonder if Kyros is just a time travelling you. That'd be an awful twist.
Please don't say that. :(

Now it is clear Kyros has been to the spires and has knowledge of what they do since they make a note a "woman" has visited the spire in the past if you use the lore skill to look through past visitors. I do think kyros has a different means of casting edicts as you said since her ones are more destructive compared to yours(Most of the Archons refer to kyros as a she so I am going with that and you see a woman when you look through the visions of the spire)

Perhaps tunon was told by Kyros to send you to speak the edict of execution since the uncovering of the spire was intentional by kyros.

Going by the elder court binder kyros knew you have to go through the old wells to get to some of em. *grumble* I really want to know what kyros is planning oh and the Archons are so dam cheeky with kyros gender for some reason.

Tomorrow I will start writing up her letters they are pretty interesting.
 

ringhloth

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Please don't say that. :(

Now it is clear Kyros has been to the spires and has knowledge of what they do since they make a note a "woman" has visited the spire in the past if you use the lore skill to look through past visitors. I do think kyros has a different means of casting edicts since her ones are more destructive(Most of the Archons refer to kyros as a she so I am going with that and you see a woman when you look through the visions of the spire)

Going by the elder court binder kyros knew you have to go through the old wells to get to some of em. *grumble* I really want to know what kyros is planning oh and the Archons are so dam cheeky with kyros gender for some reason.
That is interesting! I assumed that the artifact wasn't a spire at first, because it's mentioned that the activation of a spire is a pretty huge event, and it would have been noted by the archons at the time (though I'm not sure who'd still be alive). I assume that there is a sort "master spire" in the heart of the Northern Empire where Kyros first found out about the spires in general, and sort of stumbled upon being able to use the I think lighting edict that she cast in year 0, because the spire you find doesn't contain the ability to cast edicts unless you have absorbed them. I assume she also didn't study it, just sort of do it by accident, because it wasn't that remarkable (more people apparently remember the year 11 edict as the first edict, judging from some Lantry dialogue) yet there was never anything about the spires noted as being "activated" (and an edict would sort of overwrite that part of history, if you catch my drift).
 

evilcat

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I hope there is ending where we can just serve Kyros as Archont of Oversight or something.
Fighting Kyros... that means another 300 years of war, and many dead people. And even if i win, there will be some Voices of Nerat to deal with. No thanks.
Also it seems that Archonts are very strick with what they do. Nerat is chaotic to the end, Tunon is lawful to the end.
Player Character may as well be very strick to keep things in order, and that is it.
 

Anemetius

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I highly doubt Kyros power if our one edict forces him to stop his attack and his capital is basically ruined. Remember that Kyros cannot pass edicts on his own, he needs human voice to do so.
 

aono

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Maybe Kyros just tired and rising a heir?
 
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ringhloth

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I highly doubt Kyros power if our one edict forces him to stop his attack and his capital is basically ruined. Remember that Kyros cannot pass edicts on his own, he needs human voice to do so.
Is this true? Kyros seems to have passed edicts in the past on her own. She didn't have anyone else before year 0, when she first used an edict. My guess as to why Kyros relies on Fatebinders to cast edicts is so that Kyros is far away from the frontlines, the edict, and the ramifications of it, not an inability to cast them.
 
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Is this true? Kyros seems to have passed edicts in the past on her own. She didn't have anyone else before year 0, when she first used an edict. My guess as to why Kyros relies on Fatebinders to cast edicts is so that Kyros is far away from the frontlines, the edict, and the ramifications of it, not an inability to cast them.

Well so i read in the game. Maybe Kyros is now weaker after so many years of passing edicts? One i know is that Kyros is not so powerful as they paint him.
 

ringhloth

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Well so i read in the game. Maybe Kyros is now weaker after so many years of passing edicts? One i know is that Kyros is not so powerful as they paint him.
I think that's because Kyros only had the power of "heart" (and ancient artifacts) the whole time. Still, it seems smart for Kyros to allow others to cast the edict in her place, especially if what she wanted all along was creating another Overlord.