Endgame Crisis Setting for RP?

[Stahl-Opa]

Hey mates

I have following "problem": I'm not a very bad player, but I RP so hard that like 1/3 decisions I do are very bad (-> since RP based).
How this influence the game? Yeah, my Player Empire is only like... lets say twice or three times better then the best AI Empire.

Since I always play with >0.75 habitable World and NO save habitable worlds at starting position, myself and especially the AI is not capable to build strong fleets: Last match, while I had like 3x20k Fleetpower, the AI had only like 1x10k fleet (in 2400). Normally I dont mind since I RP and not steamroll anyone.

BUT my problems is the endgame crisis. I had it at 1.25, since it should be hard to defeat, but still possible while RPing.

To defeat the Unbidden with 3x20k is possible with some luck, but they spawned on the other side of the galaxy, and ate like 3 NPC empires before I even was aible to reach them (AI had border closed). When I was ready to fight them back, they already had numerous fleets with 60k power, so I may could defeat one, but had to rebuild a lot after this. And in the time I rebuild my fleet, the Unbidden destroyed my economic base, my defensive starbase grid and my tertiary shipyards (or they cut them off and slowed down all reeinforcment for the fleet).

Especially since the AI with their 10k Fleets was not even capable of doing the smallest bit of dmg to the Unbidden Fleets. I had to fight them completly on my own...

So, my question is: Whats a good endgame crisis setting, that you can win against them while RPing with only a few habitable world, without make it too easy? Is it possible to get the setting so low that the AI at least can fight back the Crisis, without make the Crisis a joke for a human player?

Any experiance with that? Is there something like a sheet with "Crisis Strenght Option" & "Crisis Fleet Power" and how the option has influence ingame?

 

[exi123]

A tip for fightinhg the crisis: Look up what is good against them and prepare for every kind of crisis. When you match the fleetpower and have the right weapons on board you blow those fleets up. Unbidden are heavy on shields, so kinetics, disruptors, strikecraft & arc emitters (irgnores shields completely) and they have no point defense.

On the other side their weapons deal less damage to shields but have vast bonuses against armor and hull, so you really want your ships strong shielded against them and use less/no armour.

 

[oreopirate]

To be honest, just keep setting it lower until you beat it. I have never actually beat a crisis because something always happens. Once the contigency spawned in the same system as my mega shipyard, and right next to my capital. Or I drop all my alloys into mega structures, and the crisis spawns 2401. Another time, I'm fighting the crisis, and then the AI opens up the L-Cluster, 6 of the 7 gates are in my territory and all my fleets are busy as the Grey Tempest pours out into my heart land.

 

[Troyen]

Yeah, it'll depend on some of your other game settings like difficulty level, so just keep adjusting until you find a good balance. On Captain and Commodore, the regular AI will have way more than a 10K fleet by 2400 (I was seeing multiple empires with >35k around 2350), but I don't know if they'll have enough to take on a 1x crisis on their own, and it can depend on which crisis. I have seen an Awakened Empire take on the crisis in two separate games and come close to winning (taking out all but the initial doomstacks). The Fallen Empires not so much, but they were able to at least dent the Unbidden fleets.

I find the AI does better with more planet and system access. I like running on the setting just below max hyperlanes (2.25x maybe?) so there are fewer hard bottlenecks to jam up wars, while still having strategic chokepoints. You could also consider turning on one guaranteed habitable world but then picking an origin that disables them for your empire so the AI gets that extra early game economy boost.

 

[Stahl-Opa]

A tip for fightinhg the crisis: Look up what is good against them and prepare for every kind of crisis. When you match the fleetpower and have the right weapons on board you blow those fleets up. Unbidden are heavy on shields, so kinetics, disruptors, strikecraft & arc emitters (irgnores shields completely) and they have no point defense.

On the other side their weapons deal less damage to shields but have vast bonuses against armor and hull, so you really want your ships strong shielded against them and use less/no armour.

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean
Normally, I would do this for sure - but in my RP runs, I cant... Even if I know what is efficient vs the Unbidden, my Empire / Ruler don't know. I have to waste my main fleet in a first battle before my Empire can build effective countermeasures.... and with the AI Empires just feeding the crisis, I mostly get steamrolled before my new ships are ready.

To be honest, just keep setting it lower until you beat it. I have never actually beat a crisis because something always happens. Once the contigency spawned in the same system as my mega shipyard, and right next to my capital. Or I drop all my alloys into mega structures, and the crisis spawns 2401. Another time, I'm fighting the crisis, and then the AI opens up the L-Cluster, 6 of the 7 gates are in my territory and all my fleets are busy as the Grey Tempest pours out into my heart land.

Yeah, I guess thats the way to do it... But it's just sad to RP some great games and loose them in like 10 years due the crisis. Thats why I asked if anyone can tell me the specific settings; I don't want to try-and-error until I have the optimal crisis strenght setting

Oh, and of course there are these situations you just have no chance against the crisis due bad luck... I now that feeling... Its just sad. But god thanks not common and yeah... Shit happens xD

Yeah, it'll depend on some of your other game settings like difficulty level, so just keep adjusting until you find a good balance. On Captain and Commodore, the regular AI will have way more than a 10K fleet by 2400 (I was seeing multiple empires with >35k around 2350), but I don't know if they'll have enough to take on a 1x crisis on their own, and it can depend on which crisis. I have seen an Awakened Empire take on the crisis in two separate games and come close to winning (taking out all but the initial doomstacks). The Fallen Empires not so much, but they were able to at least dent the Unbidden fleets.

I find the AI does better with more planet and system access. I like running on the setting just below max hyperlanes (2.25x maybe?) so there are fewer hard bottlenecks to jam up wars, while still having strategic chokepoints. You could also consider turning on one guaranteed habitable world but then picking an origin that disables them for your empire so the AI gets that extra early game economy boost.

Interesting, to be honest, I never thought about that. With crisis on 1.25x but habitable worlds <1x it's more or less clear, why the crisis is too hard, especially while RPing. I always just adjusted crisis strenght to galaxy size; but of course, with less world, we all have less pops and less ressources, no matter how large the galaxy is. And thus the crisis strength has to be lower as default (which is, iirc on large Galacy 1.25x). So, in this case, a RP game with 0.75x habitable worlds and 1.25x crisis, can't be succesful (without min-maxing).

I guess I have to lower it at least to 1.0x or even lower...

 

[Ryika]

Without spoiling too much, but the game will provide some help to players when the endgame crisis starts to get out of control. As long as you're not hopelessly overwhelmed, having a crisis that's a bit too strong to take on directly is actually the most interesting situation you can find yourself in, so you really shouldn't give up immediately. Also makes for better storytelling than "They showed up and died".

Well, except if you're up against the unbidden, then you'll probably die a horrible death in the chaos that ensues when the "help" arrives.

 

[Surimi]

I think if you're roleplaying, there isn't necessarily anything wrong with not beating the crisis. If you end up making a heroic last stand, that's pretty cool.

I would also recommend, even if you're not sure about it, put the AI on grand admiral setting with scaling. Scaling makes the AI less able to pulverize you in the early game, and then ramps up the bonuses when the AI needs it. They're still not going to be amazingly strong, but my AIs are at least managing 20k by 2300 or so, and their total fleet power is generally in the 60k to 80k range.

My main issue is with genocidal empires taking the crisis route. It basically forces you to stomp them, because if they get to the final level of menace (which they can potentially do in midgame) they'll often just wreck the galaxy before the real crisis even shows up.

 

[DukeLeto42]

It's also worth noting that there is also a lot you can do to stall the Crisis. Their basic behavior (at least as of the last time I played through a full Crisis) is to run fleets to the margins of their space and destroy what's there. Afterwards, constructors come along and build starbases (just like you would in claiming a system). If you can wipe out some starbases, and even better a constructor or two, you will slow their advance.

 

[fusei]

The crisis spawn is too random to recommend any setting to produce a challenging, but doable crisis.

The main reasons are time and location. 20 years can mean the difference between an impossible crisis and a trivial one and when they spawn next to your home world / mega shipyard / alloy ecumenopolis etc. it might be an instant game over for you compared with the crisis spawning on the other side of the galaxy.

My usual aim is to be able to bottle up the crisis no matter what, which usually makes it too easy, but I hate losing.

 

[Stahl-Opa]

Without spoiling too much, but the game will provide some help to players when the endgame crisis starts to get out of control. As long as you're not hopelessly overwhelmed, having a crisis that's a bit too strong to take on directly is actually the most interesting situation you can find yourself in, so you really shouldn't give up immediately. Also makes for better storytelling than "They showed up and died".

Well, except if you're up against the unbidden, then you'll probably die a horrible death in the chaos that ensues when the "help" arrives.

Haha yeah, I know that and it's very fun
But yeah, this time I got the Unbidden - and it was like the 3rd time in a row the Crisis was too hard, so the heroic last stand is kind of boring in the meanwhile

I think if you're roleplaying, there isn't necessarily anything wrong with not beating the crisis. If you end up making a heroic last stand, that's pretty cool.

I would also recommend, even if you're not sure about it, put the AI on grand admiral setting with scaling. Scaling makes the AI less able to pulverize you in the early game, and then ramps up the bonuses when the AI needs it. They're still not going to be amazingly strong, but my AIs are at least managing 20k by 2300 or so, and their total fleet power is generally in the 60k to 80k range.

My main issue is with genocidal empires taking the crisis route. It basically forces you to stomp them, because if they get to the final level of menace (which they can potentially do in midgame) they'll often just wreck the galaxy before the real crisis even shows up.

Hm, interesting. I never used higher AI especially since they mostly (pre-scaled AI option) where to stomp my RP Empire in early game (I tend to play offensivly early game.. you know, kill what you dont know and stuff ).

But I guess I should give the scaled AI a chance then?

It's also worth noting that there is also a lot you can do to stall the Crisis. Their basic behavior (at least as of the last time I played through a full Crisis) is to run fleets to the margins of their space and destroy what's there. Afterwards, constructors come along and build starbases (just like you would in claiming a system). If you can wipe out some starbases, and even better a constructor or two, you will slow their advance.

Yep, mostly what I do, but in that last game my initial (unspecialized) fleet was only aible to get down a single 16k Unbidden starport and had to repair after that... So sadly I couldn't fight them back fast enought and secure my borders to build a specialized fleet.

The crisis spawn is too random to recommend any setting to produce a challenging, but doable crisis.

The main reasons are time and location. 20 years can mean the difference between an impossible crisis and a trivial one and when they spawn next to your home world / mega shipyard / alloy ecumenopolis etc. it might be an instant game over for you compared with the crisis spawning on the other side of the galaxy.

My usual aim is to be able to bottle up the crisis no matter what, which usually makes it too easy, but I hate losing.

Sad to hear, but yeah, guess you're right. I love randomized, immersion games, but not randomized win chances xD
Pdox should make the crisis dynamic, so that the crisis fleets spawn based on the current fleetpower of the galaxy; not based on options or galaxcy scale.

 

[Ussnorway]

some of the most fun I've had is in the few games I lost

 

[Franton]

I always play with >0.75 habitable World and NO save habitable worlds

I used to play with 0 guaranteed habitable worlds too until someone pointed out that this setting is crippling to the development of the AI empires. Since I changed it back to 2 the AI empires are doing notably better!

As for beating the crisis, the toughest fleets I've seen were about 8 times the power of mine. I beat them by stacking 10-15 of my fleets on every single battle, making sure I had at least double their fleet power to start with. I also had an economy powerful enough to rebuild an entire fleet within a year, and enough shipyards to double that as long as my supply of alloys held.

What greatly helps is running every single edict and ambition that improves your fighting power, sensors, and sublight speed. It's also a good idea to place gateways at strategic points, so you can swiftly send death stacks of fleets and reinforcements to wherever they're needed. Personally I aim for having a gateway at or next to each border system, and enough additional ones to allow my ships to move anywhere (within or near my territory) within at most 6-8 jumps. I place my shipyards in systems with gateways, so my fleets and reinforcements can make instant use of the gateway network when needed.

 

[Wez_2021]

I like running on the setting just below max hyperlanes (2.25x maybe?) so there are fewer hard bottlenecks to jam up wars

Don't you usually have jump drives and portal/gateway/wormhole travel by the time the crisis happens, that make this less of an issue?

 

[Baron Jukaga]

I say set it to 10x power. The lower settings are such a let down when their 'massive invasion' is dwarfed by the fleets of minors that are 'pathetic' compared to me. Given how long it takes to get to the crisis, you want it to be somewhat challenging and a fun end game to cap off the campaign. After that, see if 25x can be beaten. That is a challenge until you really learn to maximize your alloy production.

 

[Troyen]

Don't you usually have jump drives and portal/gateway/wormhole travel by the time the crisis happens, that make this less of an issue?

I play 2250/2325/2425, so I do have gateway travel by the time the crisis spawns (though with a non-min/max build and increased tech/tradition cost I'm normally unlocking gateway construction around the time the crisis spawns). However, I intentionally don't research jump drives until the crisis warning appears so as to lower my chances for an early Unbidden, unless a WiH breaks out or something.

Still, the extra hyperlanes are helpful for the AI vs AI conflicts that encompass the first two-thirds of the game. And I also think with default hyperlanes the bottlenecking is a little extreme. I'm fine with bottlenecks that block off a cluster of 6-10 systems, but not the 20+ systems you can get with some galaxy types like the spiral patterns on default settings. The thread is also talking about enlisting the help from the AI empires in the galaxy, which may or may not take jump drives into account for their fleet pathing and targeting decisions.

I used to turn down habitable worlds dramatically in 2.x because the late-game macromanagement was a headache. 3.0 fixed my issues with lots of colonies, so I've turned them back up and been generally pleased by the AI performance on scaling Commodore. I can still stomp the AI if I try, but the power gap is a lot smaller when I'm not min-maxing.