Enderun (school for gifted) mechanic for Ottomans & Timariot State-Sipahi & "Sultanate of Women" era

Enderun (school for gifted) mechanic for Ottomans & Timariot State-Sipahi & "Sultanate of Women" era

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withche.07

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I was planning to write about this for very long time but couldn't find time.

A.
Enderun is basically male counterpart of Harem.

So this is my suggestion that will fit themes with "millets", "janissary" and different culture groups of advisors, too.

Ottomans had very important school named Enderun, basically school for gifted to grow best of best from talented candidates.



Some quotes:
"The two main positions were in governmental or science work. Students that failed to advance were automatically assigned to military."
"The Enderun Academy was the first of its kind and is an early model of academy multiculturalism. Students from multiple ethnic backgrounds were brought together and taught how to live together under a common ideal. "
"The Enderûn Institution, inspired from the state organization schemes of the Great Seljuk Empire and Seljuk Sultanate of Rum, functioned for centuries as the principal Ottoman establishment devoted to the education and training of the future members of the high-level state and military bureaucracy, where also the artistic skills of students in various fields were developed."
"Some of the most talented Devshirmeh worked in Topkapı Palace, where they were trained forhigh positions within the Ottoman Divan (court-Council) or military."





This can be very cool affect to add some more educated different culture advisors over time by annexing Christian states. Boys brought to schools should be educated so there should be new screen added to "Government" screen, where you can draft kids by spending administrative or diplo points. These advisors of course will be better/OP than regulars.
It may be executed by giving small institutional boosts (faster embracement) or tech cost discounts. (Balanced way ofc) or just better advisor stats.
This could be negated by lesser authority in government or stability hits.

I believe Enderun and palace school mechanic really fits and keeps continuity with current Janissary system. As players will find it quite unique and different gameplay comparing to many other global powers where you just culture or religion convert every other minors.

Enderun Academy event should be altered.



Note: It should be added to Rum too and it will make Rum even more enjoyable. ("The Enderûn Institution, inspired from the state organization schemes of the Great Seljuk Empire and Seljuk Sultanate of Rum")

Sources:
1. https://www.researchgate.net/public...the_Man_with_Multiple_Talents_Matrakcci_Nasuh
2. https://www.dailysabah.com/feature/...-the-top-of-the-ottoman-state-for-non-muslims
3. http://globalconnections.champlain.edu/2016/04/25/enderun-academy-ottoman-empire/
4. http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/ottoman-school-for-the-gifted-30692
5. http://topkapisarayi.gov.tr/en/content/third-court-enderun-courtyard

B.
Currently there is Timariot event that affects army proffesionalism which is okay but I think it should be expanded as alternative to Janissaries.

I want to suggest "Timariot" state system and "Sipahi" unit:


Quotes:
"A unique kind of military aristocracy and cavalry portion of the military, also lived on the land with the farmers (90% of the population) and collected tax revenues, usually in-kind, to subsidize the costs of training and equipping the small army, dedicated to serving the sultan. The sipahi did not inherit anything, preventing power centres from growing and threatening the supreme power structure."

"Within the Timar system the state gave Timar holders, including the Sipahis (cavalryman), the authorization to have control of arable lands, vacant or land possessed by peasants, wastelands, fruit trees, forests or waters within the Timar territory.[8] The Sipahis employed agents or surrogates called Keetuda, Vekil, or voyvoda to collect revenues and exercise the delegate powers.[9] They had the right to collect certain parts of the tax revenue from arable lands in certain localities in return for service to the state.[10] They were responsible to supervise their Timar territory and the way it was cultivated and possessed by peasants. The Sipahis was rewarded if he procured the settlement of vacant land. However he was punished if he caused the abandonment of cultivated land.[11] Timar holders had police authority to pursue and arrest wrong doers within their territories. However they could not enforce penalties until they received a verdict from a local judge with accordance to imperial law.[8] Their duties were to protect peasants and persons in their territory and to rejoin the imperial army during campaigns. The sultan gave Sipahis vineyards and a meadow which would take care of their families, retainers and horses needs.[12] One of the main conditions imposed by the state was that a Timar holder did not own the land; land ownership was held by the Ottoman state."

"The Sipahi eventually became the largest of the six divisions of the Ottoman cavalry."

"The timariots provided the backbone of the Ottoman cavalry force and the army as a whole. They were obligated to fight as cavalrymen in the Ottoman military when called upon. The timariots had to assemble with the army when at war, and had to take care of the land entrusted to him in times of peace. When at war, the timariot had to bring his own equipment and in addition a number of armed retainers (cebelu)"

NEW CAVALRY:
I still feel like Sipahi could be new unique mechanic and even possible unit. Sipahis were rather Turkic. (opposite of Janissaries).
Sipahis (as mechanic) should be assigned to states (similar to Pasha), they were tax collectors so tax bonus might be added. They were getting paid for their service so its affect could be countered by some economical negative buffs or too high influence over land. And adding more to manpower recovery speed/or just manpower in that state. ("And in return, tımarli sipahis were responsible for security of the people in their timar, enlisting and training cebelu soldiers for the army.")
They could be regularly spawned from states as cavalry, removing bonuses or just stay as buff to cavalry in general.

Sipahi would be option for people not choosing to play with Janissaries, as they would require Turkic culture, it may reduce disaster chance.



Sources:
1. https://www.britannica.com/topic/sipahi
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sipahi

C.

And I still think that female effects over Ottomans are could be even more expanded. I think when Hürrem becomes consort new event should fired up to affect consort control over country.



This is quite rare, interesting and even "feminist" way that could be expanded into game as its pretty much historical reality that women had very high influence in that era at Ottomans.

Sources:
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultanate_of_Women
2. https://web.archive.org/web/2011060...m/history/microsites/H/history/e-h/harem.html
3. https://femnista.wordpress.com/2017/06/14/the-sultanate-of-women/
 
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withche.07

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Thank you, new mechanics are always exciting and I believe mechanics replacing events may create more interesting, dynamic gameplay. My suggestions may seem somewhat op for already strong Ottomans but DDRJake can balance it out, I believe.

There are also lot to polish in Anatolia & Aegean & Caucasus after latest update. (missing provinces, islands, lakes or possible impassable mountains, cultures, country tags)

I hope Paradox revisit Ottomans, Caucasus and other Anatolian tags as small patch, after they finish with Britannia.
 

FantasticFwoosh

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Just to note, Anatolian history i would not call my strong-suit, i think listening to you could be definitely more informative than myself but on game terms i just need to talk about a few things.

I find it sort of uneasy reading that you could stack Siphai on top of the existing CoC janissaries and the subsequently change in play-style fluidity for the emergence of new units substantially making particular tags stronger, especially ones covering two types of unit in a single army like this. Though given the nature of it, Janissary and Siphai zoning would eventually mutually take up all your land, so a army solely comprised of both isn't likely going to happen but could be considerably scary.

However for that crucial early-midgame whilst the Ottomans are perhaps considered the dominant overall power and cavalry is foremost relevant, it would need to be punishing on the ottoman's economy or stability to use siphais with any regularity.

  • +25% more autonomy for summoning a Siphai from a pasha state, the Siphai cannot be built again until autonomy normalizes below 50% on all contained provinces, minimum of 75% autonomy required for your first button press. A 'liberum veto' option of sorts.
  • Siphai's have half maintenance cost for your troubles that disbanding them is not a option. (or maybe not, do the ottomans really need coddling?

I did note that the Timurids were relevant to Sihpai's in your original post but at the current moment I couldn't say anything particularly, sharing the unit as the Timurids usual unique unit built under normal circumstances seems fine, especially since one shifting into the other gains no particular benefits that I'm aware of and the Ottomans are de-incentivised by losing out on future events, historical relations and the effort to take the 'Claim Timur's Legacy' decision with land-grabbing & mass culture conversions for one unit and a bit of prestige seems like a low priority or long term alternative goal to conquering Europe.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Besides from this, the rest of your ideas i don't have a particular standing on, but breaking down the Enderun school process as a expanding of a devshirme system decision to summarily activate demanding random local advisors from pasha areas at half price for 50 admin once every 10 years (for balancing, or 5 years give or take) while the devshirme system modifier is active sounds like a nice execution of a gameplay mechanic and more consort events i think would be definitely welcome.
 
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CelticWarrior95

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the only thing that I have to say is that ottomans are already extremely ahistorically advanced when it comes to technology, and this type of school was not exactly meant to produce actual science achievements. if anything, it could provide a bonus to culture conversion, army and navy tradion (decay) or something like that.
but no tech bonus or institution spread bonus. heck, in most games the ottomans get institutions before france or england XD
 

withche.07

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I find it sort of uneasy reading that you could stack Siphai on top of the existing CoC janissaries and the subsequently change in play-style fluidity for the emergence of new units substantially making particular tags stronger, especially ones covering two types of unit in a single army like this. Though given the nature of it, Janissary and Siphai zoning would eventually mutually take up all your land, so a army solely comprised of both isn't likely going to happen but could be considerably scary.
I think its quite understandable concern, Sipahi as unit might be "too much".

However for that crucial early-midgame whilst the Ottomans are perhaps considered the dominant overall power and cavalry is foremost relevant, it would need to be punishing on the ottoman's economy or stability to use siphais with any regularity.

  • +25% more autonomy for summoning a Siphai from a pasha state, the Siphai cannot be built again until autonomy normalizes below 50% on all contained provinces, minimum of 75% autonomy required for your first button press. A 'liberum veto' option of sorts.
  • Siphai's have half maintenance cost for your troubles that disbanding them is not a option. (or maybe not, do the ottomans really need coddling?
Fantastic suggestions.
I did note that the Timurids were relevant to Sihpai's in your original post
There might be misunderstanding here as I didn't remember mentioning Timurids, it was "Timariot". Tımar means land given to Sipahi.

Besides from this, the rest of your ideas i don't have a particular standing on, but breaking down the Enderun school process as a expanding of a devshirme system decision to summarily activate demanding random local advisors from pasha areas at half price for 50 admin once every 10 years (for balancing, or 5 years give or take) while the devshirme system modifier is active sounds like a nice execution of a gameplay mechanic and more consort events i think would be definitely welcome.
Thanks! Should be sort of balance to all this for sure, spending admin could be one big negative.

the only thing that I have to say is that ottomans are already extremely ahistorically advanced when it comes to technology, and this type of school was not exactly meant to produce actual science achievements. if anything, it could provide a bonus to culture conversion, army and navy tradion (decay) or something like that.
but no tech bonus or institution spread bonus. heck, in most games the ottomans get institutions before france or england XD
Oh yeah, I just suggested couple of things that could be added up, as documented from school's general curriculum, administration (law, government) and diplomacy (art, music, language) should be main things. Advisors may only come up with +1 bonus and special color that adding up to regular admin or diplo points. Not sure about culture conversions are needed as school was really multiculturalist according to scholars from west too.
 

[TR] mcbabayaro_57

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woman's has great power for ottoman administration especially in 1550-1650.
 

mïracle12345

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Speaking towards the advisor idea, maybe it would be neat to choose the bonus (master of mint, natural scientist etc). You could also have the recruiting time be a decent chunk of time so you have to plan ahead (maybe 10 years?)
 

withche.07

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I just got some more information about Tımarlı Sipahi (or CAVALRY) from İsmail Hakkı Uzunçarşılı
yani devlet reâyâ denilen köylü halktan her sene alacağı öşür ve resimleri bizzat kendisi tahsil etmiyerek onu askerî hizmete mukabil timarlı sipahiye tahsis etmişti. Tımarlı sipahi aldığı bu öşür ve resme mukabil muharebe zamanında timarının az veya çokluğuna göre ya yalnız veyahut cebeli denilen teçhizatı mükemmel bir veya birkaç süvari ile beraber sefere giderdi. Timarlı sipahinin kaç bin akçede bir cebeli götüreceği mıntakasına göre kanunla tasrih edilmişti. Cebelinin bütün masrafı efendisi olan timarlı sipahiye aitti; mazeretsiz sefere gitmiyen sipahinin dirliği elinden alınır,
Basically Ottoman government gives permission to military personnel called "Timariot Sipahi" to get taxes from villagers. When war happens, Tımariot sipahi goes to war choosing men, according to their tımar (land) size, it was stated on official laws that how many cavalry was going to be brought to war tied to tax, sipahi collected.
Every cost that cavalry creates, summoned from that territory belongs to Sipahi, and if they don't go to war, their lands were taken away.

Basically Timariot may be some new estate, to be assigned to some provinces to exchange portion of tax income from that land to free specialized cavalry. That cavalry might be somewhat balanced by making it exclusive only to war time.
You cannot spam timariot cavalry as it will basically kill your income etc.


Timariot sipahi numbers according to Halil İnalcık:
XVII. century timarlı sipahi numbers
  • Beylerbeyilik/Years (1616) (1621) (1655)
  • Anatolia 3864 3447 1897
  • Karaman 814 974 639
  • Sivas 1250 1558 471
  • Rumeli 4633 4157 2696
  • Others 4306 4922 349
  • Total 14.867 15.058 6052
 
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withche.07

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After seeing latest additions to Indian estates I prefer to consider Timariot as estate. It would work better.
These Sipahis are somewhat similar to Pronoiar of Byzantium, (possibly inspired), they were part of militaristic bureaucracy Rum and Ottomans had. So they were given quite too much rights in return.
I somekinda think that Nobility class didn't fit Ottomans anyways. Their governmental form always focused on centralized power. Only nobles were statesmen-soldiers.

So I imagined Timariot estate would be fixed to Turkish provinces/states pretty much limiting their area, and if you wanna extend their power you need to change cultures to Turkish so that would counter Janissary units. So those aren't going to be combined at all. It may completely replace nobility in estates for Ottomans. They deserve representation cause their affect on country was going higher after Janissary loyalty dropped down.


Also Jain religion estate gave me idea to represent Qizilbash... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qizilbash
I think Qizilbash Alawites need better representation in game cause they played very active role in between Ottomans & Persia. They weren't usual Shia too. They even affected Mughals:
"The first Mughal Emperor Babur is known to have attained battalions of elite Qizilbash during the Battle of Ghazdewan, they then served during the Battle of Panipat (1526) and particularly during the Battle of Khanwa where the Mughal Empire won a decisive victory against armed Rajput's led by Rana Sanga"
"In the year 1556, Qizilbash troopers are known to have served victoriously under the command of the teenage Mughal Emperor Akbar during the Second Battle of Panipat against armed Rajput's led by Hemu"
Qizilbash troopers were Turcomans so game should allow them to be included in Turkish, Azerbaijani, Luri (exception) SHIA provinces. There could be some geographical border too.
So giving some states to these Sufi orders/leaders and gaining their trust would help you to summon Qizilbash armies, Ottomans could be blocked to have these cause they pretty much had hardcore probs with them but Dulkadir, Aq Qoyunlu, Qara Qoyunlu, Persia etc may be allowed. This would also help Persia to become even better.
And it will represent Shia influence over Anatolia.


I also consider Yörüks as moving estate, that may influence balkans by softening their resistance. But I couldn't think much about this.
https://yorukvillage.wordpress.com/who-are-yoruks/

In summary:
1. New Estate: Timariot Sipahi for Ottomans & Rum fixed to Turkish states & Sipahi cavalry unit
2. New Estate: Sufi Orders for all Azerbaijani countries + Aq Qoyunlu + Dulkadir + Luristan + Mughals & Qizilbash unit
3. New Estate: Yörüks, nomadic, needs to change place all the time, gives cultural change modifiers (not much I can say)

This is very cool old thread about these estate possibilities btw: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/accurate-ottoman-estates.886677
 
Last edited:

withche.07

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@neondt
@DDRJake
I am sorry to bother you guys with mention again but I just feel like these new estates could fit region lot better, especially Alawites (sufi orders) deserve mention in game.

and "school for multiculture advisors" + "women influence period" are both very unique and deserves to be added in Ottoman government. Might be even reform object.
Note: Byzantium had similar system to Tımar called Pronoia.
 

withche.07

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More details about Tımariot Sipahi:
@neondt

When I was writing about sanjaks in Balkans I mentioned Voynuks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voynuks


Voynuks (sometimes called voynugans or voynegans) were members of the privileged Ottoman military social class established in the 1370s or the 1380s. Voynuks were tax-exempt non-Muslim, usually Slavic, and also non-Slavic Vlach Ottoman subjects from the Balkans, particularly from the regions of southern Serbia, Macedonia, Thessaly, Bulgaria and Albania and much less in Bosnia and around the Danube–Sava region. Voynuks belonged to the Sanjak of Voynuk which was not a territorial unit like other sanjaks but a separate organisational unit of the Ottoman Empire.

They were originally members of the existing Balkan nobility who joined Ottomans in the 14th century and were allowed to retain their estates because Ottomans regularly incorporated pre-Ottoman military groups, including voynuks, in their own system in the early period of the Ottoman expansion in order to accomplish their new conquests more easily.

Voynuks were tax-exempt non-Muslim citizens who provided military service in periods of war. The only form of taxes they paid was 'maktu', a lump-sum amount charged to the voynuk communities, not per capita. During the periods of peace they lived from agriculture, i.e. farming and cattle breeding. They were allowed to keep their 'baştinas' (inheritable piece of arable land) and were entitled to looting during the war. Voynuks were important part of Ottoman forces until the 16th century when their military importance began to decrease at such extent that they lost their privileged status and became equal to the position of Muslim military classes. Because of the lost privileges many voynuks began to support Venetians or Habsburgs and to join hayduks. At the beginning of the 18th century about one third of young Christian men who lived near Ottoman/Christian borders were members of the groups of outlaws. Initially, the main task of voynuks was to guard the Ottoman borders in Bulgaria and Macedonia, either by patrolling or by incursions into the enemy territory.


As I told here and in another thread: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...-state-sipahi-sultanate-of-women-era.1068546/
Ottomans didn't truly have "nobility" class similar to europe. They had specific system of military caste called Sipahi owning Timar (land). (which was borrowed from Byzantium Pronoia system) Voynuks were basically counterpart of Timariots in Balkans, under different type of administration:

Voynuks were organized within Sanjak of the Voynuks (Turkish: Voynugân Sancağı) which was not a territorial administrative unit like other regular sanjaks but one of the Ottoman organizational units of the military and social groups. The largest of such units were those of Voynuks, Akinci, Yürüks, Romani and Vlachs.


Martolos is very similar (also borrowed from Byzantium):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martolos


The martolos system was adopted from the Byzantine Empire. Predominantly recruited from the Balkans, they were chosen from the land-owning Orthodox Christians, who retaining their religion, entered the askeri [military] caste.
Due to their positions, they were allowed and able to hold timars. They received a daily wage, and askeri status, despite still being Christian. Their commanders were predominantly Muslim (martolos bashi). The duty was hereditary. They were exempted from the jizya and various local taxes.

Askeri basically means military/soldierly, so it is different kind of half autonomous estate system, where you get special status by giving your service to admin, it brings you jizya exceptions and "land" you freely own (well not truly "own" in 21st century term, but you can do whatever you want with it as much as you live)

I STRONGLY favor Tımar system to replace nobility estate in Ottoman government.
It could also be implemented into Byzantium.

Tımar may come with cavalry/soldier rising option also.