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Schlieffen

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Jeez, maybe I need to just lay down the gauntlet and say one update per reply. That would probably backfire though and I'd get a billion replies, so I'll settle for a comment here and there based on how things are going and what guesses as to what will come. (Actually I'd really like the latter - might inspire me. ;) )

Anyways, for the next update I'm thinking either of creating the "Trial of Victor" article (the three Dukes after him, Victoria's fate looking iffy) or creating the "Victor II" article (ends the aformentioned tough time, essentially cements what Victor I started). Of course I'll end up doing both, but are there any preferences as to which one you'll get to read first? Maybe suggestions for an additional article to go along with the Trail of Victor one (I'm guessing it'll be shorter to make)? ;)
 

das

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The idea about update-per-reply may not be all that bad, actually. ;)
 

unmerged(58610)

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I am beginning to think Schlieffen does not want to tell us about the Trial of Victor. It must have been an all too embarassing phase of the game for him!

Anything could have happened, from the rebirth of France to Austria taking half of Victoriana. One thing is for certain, Charles V will be Emperor of the HRE.
 

unmerged(59737)

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This is a really neat concept, and a well done execution. I’ll be following this.
 

Schlieffen

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Jeez, took you people long enough. I was about to end the project from a lack of interest! :p
Crap... well I guess I have to work on it now... I'll probalby write up the Trail of Victor a bit sometime today then. :D
 

The Danish King

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Looking excellent!
 

Schlieffen

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Ok, the update might be a little longer than I thought. I want to have a somewhat complete article when I post, so hopefully everyone'll understand the delay. Expect it in the next few days.
 

Schlieffen

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The Trial of Victor: A period of drastic decline in Victorian power, lasting from the death of Adolph I in 1506 to the beginning of Victor II's rule in 1541.

The Name and its Significance
The phrase "Trial of Victor" was actually coined by Victor II during a speach at his coronation, refering to his great grandfather, Victor I:
"Citizens of this land, we have survived the Trial of Victor, and have proven in His eyes that we are worthy of the greatness that was his rule. Through blow after crippling blow we have stood, refusing to surrender even when it would be the easiest course; we have been torn asunder and yet we have remained united; and we have fought against our brothers when they were wrong, and fought beside them when they were right. Citizens of Victoria, the hour of our greatness has returned!"
As a result of the use of "Victoria", the end of the Trial of Victor is also commonly marked as the birth of Victoria, but more importantly this glorification of Victor I, already held in high regard as representing the greatness of better times, along with the other acts of Victor II, helped in the creation of Victorianism and Vicarism, as well as the creation of a national Victorian identity.

The Trial Begins
After the death of Victor I, his heir, Adolph I, appeared to be continuning the pattern of great leadership that had made Victoria dominate Western Europe in a few short decades, taking the majority of the English holdings in France when Brittany attacked the area around Paris in a bid to enter the War of Burgundy, personally leading a few battles against Brittany for control over the area. He lived for only three years before dying a sudden death in 1506, leaving his six year old son, Konrad the Young, to rule with his mother, Anne of Bavaria, as Regent. Although Anne was adapt at handling the internal affairs of Victoria, she was not a military leader and, although she would likely have been an able diplomat in other circumstances, she could not muster the skills that Victor or Adolph had used to hold back the many enemies that had gathered during their reigns.

French Reprisals
Although 1506 is the commonly accepted date for the beginning of the Trial, the actual struggles that would characterize the ordeal began when Savoy, searching for an edge in the War of Burgundy, invaded southern Victoria in 1509. Although many thought it was a foolhearty move because of the percieved strength of Victoria - indeed, the Duke of Savoy was placed under a regency only two years later for insanity - the invasion actually went amazingly well, ending in Franche-Comté (which, oddly enough, retained the name "Free County of Burgundy" despite Burgundy being practically disbanded) being given to Savoy. Although this defeat in itself was not an immense loss, it brought Victoria into the War of Burgundy as an area for participants to prove their strength, and it was not long until other French duchies began to raid into Victorian lands. By the time of Konrad the Young's death in 1515, the majority of Victor and Adolph's gains in France were lost.

German Opportunism
Although Germany was much more quiet during the early years of the Trial of Victor, there were opportunistic strikes by some of the enemies Victoria had accumulated, all supported in one way or another by the Hapsburg Emperors, who were still bitter about their defeat in Tyrol. Although most of these attempts didn't amount to much, there were losses along Victoria's German border.

A Second Regency
Although the territorial losses afterwards were less than the previous six years, the death of Konrad the Young at the age of fifteen, leaving his twelve year old brother as Duke, is commonly held as a major blow to Victoria. While Victoria's struggles up to this point were all against outside forces, the demoralization of another minor Duke inheriting were simply too much for some of Victoria's nobility to take. The internal struggles of the following years were what Victorians remembered with the most bitterness, but also with the most fondness, such as the Battle of Flanders, where a Victorian and rebelling noble army declared a cease-fire to defeat an invading Breton army and, ultimately, negotiated their differences to prevent any further incursions on Victorian soil.
Of course outside forces were not slow to take advantage of this weakness. Although the pace would slow dramatically after Vincent I's majority, the remainder of Victor and Adolph's gains in France, Tyrol, additional areas along the German provinces, and a fairly large area of Victoria's Dutch possessions were all lost in the following decades. By 1538, three unconnected Dutch, German, and Burgundinian areas were all that remained of Victoria, and had Victor II not inherited in 1539 there is little doubt that this decline would have continued.

Post-Mortem

ToV-Map.jpg

Victoria at Adolph I's death, the areas lost under Konrad I, and the areas lost under Vincent I

Although the struggle was a hard one and the losses great, the people of Victoria would afterwards view it as necessary. The Trial of Victoria marked the death of the notion of Burgundy, and the void left in its place allowed Victor II to form the nation that would become Victoria. Additionally it contributed greatly to the Victorians' hardworking attitude and their rational (if perhaps somewhat bitter and melancholy) outlook on life. Much like the Swiss were a people unified despite their prior nationality, so would Victoria become the same.
 
Last edited:

Schlieffen

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Welp, there goes a big chunk of Victoria. Ok, about half of it. :D
On a side note, Charles V should be around right now. Poor guy got screwed out of his big Empire, all because I had to go and take Burgundy away. :p
 

stnylan

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An interesting concept, though it sounds like you've encountered one or two teething problems getting it to work. Indeed, sounds like this format will need a good deal of tweaking, but I look forward to seeing how it ends up. Very nice map.
 

Schlieffen

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stnylan: Well the problem isn't so much in the format itself, but the way people are used to reading forums. If it's thought of as more a Wiki kind of deal instead of a forum thread (ie, only view one post at a time and navigate from there), it works fine. Some threads might need to be cut out to make which ones to read a little more obvious - although my original intention was for Tyrol to have some importance in there, the article is basically a distraction at this point - but I think it at least has a possibility to work out. At the very least I might get an award for "most creative" or something. :p


Anyways, I seem to be feeling prolific today - I keep wanting to play HOI:DD, but I can't help but think of what I want to do when I get to that point in EncVic, so I guess I just want to get there really badly. :D
Added the end of the War of Burgundy. It isn't especially detailed, but it doesn't have to be. I mean I'll probably have Victoria stomp 'em again anyways, so why bother? ;)

And a side note: as time goes on history will be deviated from further and further, so I may stop using specific names when refering to non-Victorian leaders ("the Savoyard heiress" in this update, for example). If need be I could come up with a string of dukes or whatever to make everything match up, but I really don't think it's especially important to have every nation's history be that detailed since Victoria is kind of the star of the show - the details of the other nations can be assumed to be dull and boring unless otherwise is stated. :p
 

stnylan

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Schlieffen said:
stnylan: Well the problem isn't so much in the format itself, but the way people are used to reading forums. If it's thought of as more a Wiki kind of deal instead of a forum thread (ie, only view one post at a time and navigate from there), it works fine. Some threads might need to be cut out to make which ones to read a little more obvious - although my original intention was for Tyrol to have some importance in there, the article is basically a distraction at this point - but I think it at least has a possibility to work out. At the very least I might get an award for "most creative" or something. :p
Ahh, you see I would say that was the essential difficulty of the format of this AAR. It is - to put it mildly - ill-suited to the forum environment.

However, I would question the need to even attempt to remain chronological. Director once did a series of essays on Bremen that very quickly lost overall chronology - they dipped in and out of different things - and it did not harm the AAR in the least.
 

Schlieffen

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stnylan said:
Ahh, you see I would say that was the essential difficulty of the format of this AAR. It is - to put it mildly - ill-suited to the forum environment.
But it's adaptable enough - if all you click on is the link then all you see is that "article", so other than the comments it works out fine. If everyone else thinks it doesn't work I could make a "comments" thread and ask a mod to come in and clear out the other posts, but I think it's fine. I put a table of contents at the beginning for a reason. :)

stnylan said:
However, I would question the need to even attempt to remain chronological. Director once did a series of essays on Bremen that very quickly lost overall chronology - they dipped in and out of different things - and it did not harm the AAR in the least.
Well I'm not remaining *completely* chronological, but I find it's easiest to have a lot of the "past" done before you get to a certain part - as it is I have a very general idea of what I want to have for the HOI and Victoria timeframes, but the best way to get the details for that are to have the backstory done first. I'm guessing that there will be far fewer events-per-decade after I write up Victor II (it's hard to get more eventful than the birth, near death and rebirth of a nation in fifty years :D ), but I'd like to get a lot of the society bits and more minor events (especially the fates of foreign states, many of which are undoubtably altered drastically by the difference in Hapsburg history) done before I go on, if only to give me more ideas for the future.
 

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Nice story, rather strange ideas but it is one of good alternative ideas I seen around so far. Too many AAR is mostly major countries with mostly same aims. So nice to see one.

Keep the good work up :)

Cheers

Sap.
 

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Whoo! Saved from going off the front page!
*Looks around*
*Gives Sapphire a twenty*
"See you on MSN"


:D


Well as per earlier agreements, I guess I'll have another update coming up, although this one might take a little longer. I'm thinking of either Victor II or Vicarism/Victorianism, neither one (ones?) would be particularly minor, so it's either one big update or multiple smaller ones. It'll probably be the former when I write it all in one day, but I need to wait for that day to come. So busy... :p
 

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Victor II 1506-1541 crowned in 1539 is not the reign of a king to regain Victor's lost lands. He sounds more like a battlefield casualty. Does another minority loom?

Do the three separate bits of Victor have different branches of the royal house of Victor ruling them?

The bretons thought that they could take a bit of Victor and were roundly defeated by two rival Victor armies. I do not know if this is a case of civil war or rebels seeking to re-establish the Duchy of Brabant. I think it very significant that they put aside their differences and look forward to Victor chastising the Bretons sometime soon.

You are not doing a straightforward Burgundy and you are not writing a narrative story AAR. Why rush your story?
 

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Chief Ragusa said:
Victor II 1506-1541 crowned in 1539 is not the reign of a king to regain Victor's lost lands. He sounds more like a battlefield casualty. Does another minority loom?
:confused: Victor II starts in '39, being born in 1520. 1506-1541 is the time with the two minorities, and it probably would have continued given Vincent's semi-poor leadership had Victor II not taken over.
Could you point out the lines that made you think Victor II was born in 1506? Maybe I wrote something that only makes sense to me because I left out something that I thought I wrote earlier. Wouldn't be the first time that happened in my writing. :rolleyes:

Chief Ragusa said:
The bretons thought that they could take a bit of Victor and were roundly defeated by two rival Victor armies. I do not know if this is a case of civil war or rebels seeking to re-establish the Duchy of Brabant. I think it very significant that they put aside their differences and look forward to Victor chastising the Bretons sometime soon.
Well it's a rebelling army versus the Victorian one. I'll try to clarify that a bit in the article.

Chief Ragusa said:
You are not doing a straightforward Burgundy and you are not writing a narrative story AAR. Why rush your story?
A fear of putting too much information out there, both because people would be less likely to read it (I'd assume, at least - I eat the stuff up myself :D ), and because in order to have it be truely comprehensive I'd probably require a team of people to help out. I'd love to go into detail about the alternate history of every country out there, but unfortunately I just don't have the time. I doubt anyone on these boards who isn't retired for the next year or two does. :D
The problem is that some things about real history you just know - explaining the Wars of the Roses is almost impossible without that simple information, but if you have that background knowledge that most people have it becomes a lot easier. I guess the problem is some subconcious part of me is assuming that most people have all of that information about Victoria, even though I just made it up in my head. :D

Anyways, the next few updates will probably be fleshing out the articles then. I'd appreciate it if any confusions that anyone has are brought forward to help me make this as readable as possible.
 

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Chief Ragusa said:
Trial of Victor II
You're going to have to point out where you see that - I searched everything and didn't find any mention of anything like that, nor do I recall writing it either. The beginning of the Trail of Victor article opens with where the name came from - a speach by Victor II when he was coronated at the end of the Trial of Victor - so if that's it I might change that or clarify it a bit.