Encircled divisions and thousands disappearing just like that

[Metz]

Would there be a way to have some sort of statistic where it shows how many of your soldiers are captured during a conflict/war? Like if you are fighting a regional war in some part of the world and 10,000 of your soldiers are encircled and captured, you should be able to get some/most of them back if you win. Realistically they all wouldn't just be executed just like that especially after surrendering.


Perhaps a small mechanic about trading captured officers back and forth which boosts random division's morale?

 

[Jmland]

In general, could be an event, triggered by a peace treaty, but as for numbers, not sure how to model that. If you want it to represent an actual number from what happened in the game (i.e. not a scripted event, but on map action), not sure if that would be possible. Too much fuzzy logic and interpretation involved. I don't think that a game would be up to that level of AI.

 

[Axe99]

This is actually an interesting point, for a game that may involve multiple staggered wars and not just one big one, and not just for the winners. That said, I think forum rules mean that we'll have to do without. There may be a way of putting together an event in a mod that gave countries a manpower boost after a peacedeal - the game tracks casualties during a war, so you could have a set percentage of casualties returned to the manpower pool after the peace?

 

[Anichent]

At the very least you are right, for divisions that are encircled ie. 30,000 men who just disappear, that manpower should go somewhere and recording it makes perfect sense.
Not sure it matters, or how it could be done well, for regular battles though. I think the game sort of just assumes if they aren't casualties then they are still there to use.

 

[Van Tuber]

This is an interesting idea, but may be a touchy subject as depending on the nation, you won't get most of your men back.

 

[Anichent]

This is an interesting idea, but may be a touchy subject as depending on the nation, you won't get most of your men back.

Out of curiosity which nations do you mean? Even the Germans sent Jewish POWs to normal POW camps and not concentration camps. I thought POWs were kept pretty well by all sides?

 

[MajorHeartfire]

This could fall under the category of "too hard to represent."

That being said, I would love to see it if they were able to put it in!

 

[Alpha2518]

This could fall under the category of "too hard to represent."

That being said, I would love to see it if they were able to put it in!

Well we could represent it where if they got no where to run too and they just disappear off the map they are recorded as prisoners and this is reflected in the menu that shows who is winning the war with casualties etc. Then when the war end those prisoners go back home and you have some manpower back. That would be a nice thing to have after a war. A partial refund on the manpower you spent.

 

[adam_grif]

Out of curiosity which nations do you mean? Even the Germans sent Jewish POWs to normal POW camps and not concentration camps. I thought POWs were kept pretty well by all sides?

We aren't really allowed to talk about it in detail, but Germany did not treat Soviet prisoners in accordance with the standards you might hope. You'll have to do your own research on this topic.

Paradox policy on this matter:

- No discussion of atrocities
- Prisoner of War mechanics will not be included in HoI

Thread is probably going to get locked soon.

 

[Van Tuber]

Out of curiosity which nations do you mean? Even the Germans sent Jewish POWs to normal POW camps and not concentration camps. I thought POWs were kept pretty well by all sides?

I had a more indepth reply, then saw adam's post. Suffice to say a quick google search on German and Japanese war crimes will tell what you need.

 

[Amur_Tiger]

If you wanted to handle this at all I think it'd be best to approach it as a strict 'you get X% of your losses back at the conclusion of war' instead of counting who's captured and who's dead as while strategic encirclement may be the oft-pursued goal tactical encirclement was a much more common occurrence.

 

[Alpha2518]

We aren't really allowed to talk about it in detail, but Germany did not treat Soviet prisoners in accordance with the standards you might hope. You'll have to do your own research on this topic.

Paradox policy on this matter:

- No discussion of atrocities
- Prisoner of War mechanics will not be included in HoI

Thread is probably going to get locked soon.

Really? PoWs not being included in policy. Must've missed that part of the policy.

 

[KiwiNoob]

I guess the problem is that if a nation is consistently capturing enough divisions for the mechanic to be worth while they are probably going to win the war anyway so the mechanic is not needed.

If you're losing a large number of divisions to encirclement you need a lesson in strategy not a mechanic to try and get them back

 

[Housies]

Out of curiosity which nations do you mean? Even the Germans sent Jewish POWs to normal POW camps and not concentration camps. I thought POWs were kept pretty well by all sides?

Seriously, you should catch up on some historical correct literature.
Indeed, concentration camps were not often used for POW's. But some nations used other ways of getting rid of them.

 

[KiwiNoob]

If you guys stick to 'captured divisions' and getting those back this discussion might just continue.

Keep talking about the other things and game over.

 

[Anichent]

I guess the problem is that if a nation is consistently capturing enough divisions for the mechanic to be worth while they are probably going to win the war anyway so the mechanic is not needed.

If you're losing a large number of divisions to encirclement you need a lesson in strategy not a mechanic to try and get them back

Your point only holds for larger nations in large wars. For smaller nations in smaller wars it makes a huge difference. If you lose them in the war, yes the war is probably lost. But when your units do get encircled in a war and then your war ends, its silly to have all that manpower just gone. With the recent China-Japan example from the dev MP, its a really good point.

Ie. But imagine a minor war, like if Greece and Turkey go to war in 1939, many thousand of troops get encircled quickly and "disappear" (which means they were captured in reality), and then the war ends in 1940....does it make sense for the country to take such a giant manpower loss of maybe 100,000 men just "gone" if they are invaded in 1942 by Italy? No it doesn't. Those men should be available since they weren't killed and would be returned after the war.

Since ahistory and smaller wars seem more likely in HOi4 than HOI3, I think its a valid point. A mod that deals with this would be popular.

 

[Zaku]

Really? PoWs not being included in policy. Must've missed that part of the policy.

That's the first thing the hoi4 forum rule is stating.

NOTE: There will not be any gulags or deathcamps (including POW camps) to build in Hearts of Iron4, nor will there be the ability to simulate the Holocaust or systematic purges, so I ask you not to discuss these topics as they are not related to this game. Thank You. Threads bringing up will be closed without discussion.

 

[Anichent]

That's the first thing the hoi4 forum rules states.

Seriously ONE person could have PMed me with a simple answer, you guys are killing this thread when there's a valid point to be discussed about manpower.

Drop it.

 

[Alpha2518]

That's the first thing the hoi4 forum rule is stating.

That doesn't seem to be the same thing I'm talking about. It says build POW camps. I'm not saying build them. I'm saying keep track of the number of POWs so the belligerents can get a partial refund of their manpower when the war ends.

Though I do find it interesting that they say no systematic purges when they have the Great Purge national focus for the Soviet Union. But maybe that's just the exception.

 

[Saint Gwynllyw]

Out of curiosity which nations do you mean? Even the Germans sent Jewish POWs to normal POW camps and not concentration camps. I thought POWs were kept pretty well by all sides?