Empress died in battle???

[Tatterhood]

All rulers are allowed to lead armies. You do have the option to not lead troops though.

More specifically, rulers can lead their own armies. So if you're a king, you can't make your vassal duchess a commander without the appropriate status of women law, but if she goes to war on her own she can command her army.

I think the game will always put you in charge of your own personal levy when you raise it, unless you forbid yourself from commanding. (Incidentally the "forbid yourself from leading armies" doesn't actually stop you from leading armies, it just means the game won't automatically assign you to one. You can still manually pick yourself to command a flank if you want.)

 

[Don_giorgio]

Yeah i had that as King of France. My vassal Duchess wasnt eligible for command but when she rebelled against me she lead her own armies to battle.

When i (rarely) play female rulers i forbid them to lead armies for role play reasons mainly unless they are highly skilled martially so for role play reasons again i allow them to lead armies.

 

[DmUa]

There are plenty of women throughout history who have lead armies into battle. Sure it's rare, but not so strange.

- give me examples of those "plenty", sister, examples!

That's indeed the rarest thing, the Byzatine Empire only had one Empress in a thousand years of history. There are more examples of women leading armies in this time period.

https://womenshistorymonth.wordpress.com/resources/women-and-series/women-and-war/female-warriors/

- kek, the whole 47 "examples" out of which half are legendary and half were not really a "warriors" or combat leaders but were just present at the battle.

 

[Don_giorgio]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Women_in_medieval_European_warfare

There are quite a few women who lead their own armies personally in medieval times.

 

[raistlin_wizard]

- give me examples of those "plenty", sister, examples!

- kek, the whole 47 "examples" out of which half are legendary and half were not really a "warriors" or combat leaders but were just present at the battle.

You asked for examples, here they are. (Notice than Jane D'Arc is missing). Having a Basilissa is rarer than a woman leading armies and I don't see anyone complaining about it.

 

[Gamengervi]

- give me examples of those "plenty", sister, examples!

Off of the top of my head? Lady Liang, Tamar the Great of Gerogia, and Jeanne d'Arc, naturally. Regarding the first, there are many women all throughout Chinese history known for their role on the battlefield. Either commanding troops, personally engaging in combat, or both.

 

[DmUa]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Women_in_medieval_European_warfare

There are quite a few women who lead their own armies personally in medieval times.

- nope, those are women in european warfare, those list consists out of women that either: 1) were active ( or to be more precise - are/were represented as such ) in politics including the politic continuation - war; 2) fictious without any real accountability but folk tales. This list is not a list of "warrior" women or combat leader women. And it is still just an 86 highly dubious examples that cover ~1000 years of history.

You asked for examples, here they are. (Notice than Jane D'Arc is missing). Having a Basilissa is rarer than a woman leading armies and I don't see anyone complaining about it.

- those examples are bad. And second list that was posted by Don_giorgio do contain Jane D'Arc. And people do noted that female monarchs in CK2 are much more frequent than they were in IRL, its just doesnt look as ridiculous as medieval 17 year old female monarchs personally leading armies in the desert during their pregnancies.

Off of the top of my head? Lady Liang, Tamar the Great of Gerogia, and Jeanne d'Arc, naturally.

- 1. "Her real given name was lost in time."(c) wiki. But it is wery good that chinese folk kept the stories about those fine lass for us! 2. Never was "warrior" queen or led any battles personally. 3. Yeah...

Regarding the first, there are many women all throughout Chinese history known for their role on the battlefield. Either commanding troops, personally engaging in combat, or both.

- folk tales hold truth!

 

[raistlin_wizard]

- nope, those are women in european warfare, those list consists out of women that either: 1) were active ( or to be more precise - are/were represented as such ) in politics including the politic continuation - war; 2) fictious without any real accountability but folk tales. This list is not a list of "warrior" women or combat leader women. And it is still just an 86 highly dubious examples that cover ~1000 years of history.

- those examples are bad. And second list that was posted by Don_giorgio do contain Jane D'Arc. And people do noted that female monarchs in CK2 are much more frequent than they were in IRL, its just doesnt look as ridiculous as medieval 17 year old female monarchs personally leading armies in the desert during their pregnancies.

The thing is which is not a legend when talking about medieval ages? If Ragnar Lodbrok is a legend of course Lagertha is one too. It's hard to distinguish myth from reality, but it applies to everything. There were few women leading armies, but it wasn't unthinkable to see one.

 

[Gamengervi]

- 1. "Her real given name was lost in time."(c) wiki. But it is wery good that chinese folk kept the stories about those fine lass for us! 2. Never was "warrior" queen or led any battles personally. 3. Yeah...

- folk tales hold truth!

Are you trying to tell me there are zero examples of women engaging in combat in the Middle Ages? Sikelgaita is listed on the page that Don_giorgio linked to. Did she not exist? Do you want more Chinese examples? There's Princess Zhao of Pingyang. Then there's the Vietnamese Trưng Sisters who fought against the Chinese. Their army was supposedly made up of mostly women, but that's quite some time before the Middle Ages. I'm not saying it was by any means common, but exactly how much proof do you need for you to acknowledge the existence of any of these people?

Edit: And don't call me 'sister'.

 

[RoverGrover]

Maybe not directly battlefield but Olga of Kiev was pretty adept at clearing out the opposition.

 

[DmUa]

The thing is which is not a legend when talking about medieval ages? If Ragnar Lodbrok is a legend of course Lagertha is one too. It's hard to distinguish myth from reality, but it applies to everything. There were few women leading armies, but it wasn't unthinkable to see one.

- well, in some places were literacy was more or less intact we can to a certain extent be sure that the information we have are accountable. But in case of other places... Its a just a folk tales or even a recent additions from romantic nationalism era. And yeah, the information we have do mean that seeing medieval woman personally leading armies in the field of battle is rather unthinkable.

Are you trying to tell me there are zero examples of women engaging in combat in the Middle Ages?

- kinda not, im trying to tell that existing examples can be counted on the by the fingers of one hand.

Sikelgaita is listed on the page that Don_giorgio linked to. Did she not exist?

- well, she kinda not, she died long time ago and the last time i checked dying erases you from existence. You probably wanted to say - not existed. Than my answer would be - no, she did existed... probably. But at what extent she could be called "warrior" women or combat leader is rather debatable. As wiki states itself - "As a middle-aged woman with a large family, it is unlikely that she was a combatant although obviously close to the action, probably in a sort of command post."

Do you want more Chinese examples? There's Princess Zhao of Pingyang. Then there's the Vietnamese Trưng Sisters who fought against the Chinese. Their army was supposedly made up of mostly women, but that's quite some time before the Middle Ages. I'm not saying it was by any means common, but exactly how much proof do you need for you to acknowledge the existence of any of these people?

- sorry, but those all are Jeanne of d'Arc like stories, and historians even today cant agree on a far more accountable character of Jeanne. While your examples are from much more older times than 15 century AD.

Maybe not directly battlefield but Olga of Kiev was pretty adept at clearing out the opposition.

- well, Olga is one of the "legendary" leaders, and according to her legend she just ordered to her soldiers to kill drevlians in 3 stages.

Well, its all for today as now i need to depart to my work. Ciao.

 

[Gamengervi]

- kinda not, im trying to tell that existing examples can be counted on the by the fingers of one hand.

You'll need more than one hand. I never said it was common. In fact, I explicitly stated it was rare. I just said that there are plenty of examples, which there are. You just don't seem to acknowledge them for some reason.

- well, she kinda not, she died long time ago and the last time i checked dying erases you from existence. You probably wanted to say - not existed. Than my answer would be - no, she did existed... probably.

I'm very confused by these lines and I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say, but you're wrong nonetheless.

But at what extent she could be called "warrior" women or combat leader is rather debatable. As wiki states itself - "As a middle-aged woman with a large family, it is unlikely that she was a combatant although obviously close to the action, probably in a sort of command post."

As you're the first person to use the word 'warrior' in our back and fourth, I'm going to have to ask you to define the term. Is a person who leads or commands troops into battle not a warrior unless they've personally slew their enemy?

- sorry, but those all are Jeanne of d'Arc like stories, and historians even today cant agree on a far more accountable character of Jeanne. While your examples are from much more older times than 15 century AD.

Please tell me exactly how much proof you're going to need for someone to prove to you the existence of a person and their actions.

 

[Rubidium]

If she's at the scene of the battle, even if she's in the rear, she could certainly be killed if the enemy breaks through and surrounds her (either because she refuses to surrender, they refuse to accept her surrender, she commits suicide rather than be captured, one of her companions "helpfully" kills her to prevent her being captured, etc.). Or dies of one of the numerous diseases that accompany camp life, and her propagandist decided it would be more noble to describe her as dying of battle than of typhus.

If you want a more "realistic" explanation, assume she ended up like Ida of Austria

 

[Mike Louis]

If you see a sword icon next to you ruler's portrait, that means he or she is leading troops. To have them return to the palace, go to the unit he or she is commanding and click "Resign".

Btw, if you happen to play a Henry VIII type ruler (you either have no sons or only one son) and your realm's Status of Women law is at Full, instead of trying to get a divorce or starting a conspiracy to murder your wife, you can appoint her as a commander and have her killed in battle.

 

[Sunspawn]

Matilda of Tuscany disagrees.

 

[TheGreatSnoop]

An Empress of Byzantium personally leading a charge doesn't sound ridiculous to you?

Absolutely not. There aren't many examples of female rulers leading armies during medieval times, but there are enough.

He wasn't questioning them leading armies, he was questioning them leading a charge into combat, I think the distinction is important because they're different things.

 

[DPS]

He wasn't questioning them leading armies, he was questioning them leading a charge into combat, I think the distinction is important because they're different things.

Maybe (to be honest, I don't understand much of what he posted), but you can be killed by the enemy either way.

 

[RoverGrover]

He wasn't questioning them leading armies, he was questioning them leading a charge into combat, I think the distinction is important because they're different things.

That's fair, but as DPS said that's hardly a guarantee of safety. Even in a battle you're winning, being in a "safe" place can be anything but. Honestly even from your own allies. The chaos of battle allows for many... tragic events... to unfold

 

[raistlin_wizard]

He wasn't questioning them leading armies, he was questioning them leading a charge into combat, I think the distinction is important because they're different things.

Leading an army on the battlefield may involve charging on some situations. What's so weird about it?

 

[Darkgamma]

- give me examples of those "plenty", sister, examples!

- kek, the whole 47 "examples" out of which half are legendary and half were not really a "warriors" or combat leaders but were just present at the battle.

And a hearty kek to you too my fine sir or madam