The Ottoman Empire is going to properly industrialize just based on the amount of victory fez's well be making for the inhabitants of the Central Powers.
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Play 1938 scenario in Vanilla.
If they would start in 1910 scenario, I`m not sure they would get into WW1 within 3 sessions.
One then wonders when was the last time he saw a 1938 MP scenario. The only group to do that around the forums was the Carnage one and it resulted in Germany being stomped quite bad the last time...
1910-1914 would have more quirks to solve than 1936-1939, namely wars Ottomans get into (with Albania, Italy and Balkans), so that's a ton of houserules you need to add here. While you can't really build up much more before WWI starts if playing for 1914, it's just much easier to play than 1910 and I remember it's more developed as well.
I think there would be enormous balance problems with the 1910 scenario anyway so better not touch it in mp.
Russia shouldn't be able to build IC in 1910 right away. Their industry was basically no-existing at that time.
But imagine what the other countries could roll out.
But imagine what the other countries could roll out.
The Russian industry was far from non-existent. In fact it was rather large. Inefficient and ill manged, but still large, and growing larger every year.
For a country that literally had no modern industry, one need to look no further than the Ottoman Empire
! But it's okay, I'm gonna launch an extensive industry building program after the war I swear!
For a country that literally had no modern industry, one need to look no further than the Ottoman Empire
! But it's okay, I'm gonna launch an extensive industry building program after the war I swear!
AFAIK, the Russians had very little in terms of industry, especially armament industry. By the start of WWI, they had two major ammunition production centers, which was one of the reasons they ran out of bullets and shells rather quickly early in the war. Other industries were in the process of being established, largely thanks to French investments, but they were nowhere near the same quantity as in the UK, France or Germany by that time.
The Russian war industry had the same growing pains every nations economy had. Everyone had armament issues and ammunition issues, and it wasn't until 1916 that this was resolved for most, this included Russia, which by 1916 had developed a large arms industry that was as capable as anyone else. But as mentioned, their economy also wasn't as diverse or well managed enough to still supply the demands of the home front, which lead to bad living conditions (well I mean...it's Russia, so just take that, and imagine it WORSE!) and then of course lead to revolution and political turmoil.
Of course it wasn't as big as Germany's or Great Britians, and not as well managed as France's, but they were still a rapidly industrializing nation, certainly more so than Austria-Hungary, or even Italy.
Of course it wasn't as big as Germany's or Great Britians, and not as well managed as France's, but they were still a rapidly industrializing nation, certainly more so than Austria-Hungary, or even Italy.
If memory serves, just before the war the only country industrializing faster than Russia was the United States.
Yes, Russia was industrializing fast - but from a very low starting point, just like modern day China. It's easy to achieve a 10% growth rate when beginning at the bottom.
I think the more important factor here is Tzar Nicholas, who was actively against industrialization, because it did not fit his ideal of a quasi-medieval nation of peasants and aristocrats, where he ruled as Autocrat (I read he even referred to his country as 'Rus', not 'Russia' - an intentional throwback).
I think the more important factor here is Tzar Nicholas, who was actively against industrialization, because it did not fit his ideal of a quasi-medieval nation of peasants and aristocrats, where he ruled as Autocrat (I read he even referred to his country as 'Rus', not 'Russia' - an intentional throwback).
Well okay, this multiplayer group is falling apart for god knows whatever reasons. We managed to play a game, but it was for less than an hour. It was very exciting, but I'm not sure it's worthy writing up an AAR on this. I think I'm gonna save this until next week....sigh...
Well pft, this is getting way to close to the end of the page for my liking! Mini update coming!
The Empire Strikes Back
Ottoman troops firing on Italian soldiers in Libya, August 1916.
Ottoman troops firing on Italian soldiers in Libya, August 1916.
In June of 1916, with the vicious Battle of the Bulge occupying the full attention of the Ottoman public, Cemal Pasha was in Budapest, along with military minds from all the Central Powers. Though great victories had been won at sea, and the Central Powers held their own on the ground, some concern had grown about what to do next. Germany lacked the transports to enact a landing of the British Isles, the French were slowly starting to push back on the western front, Italy remained static, and the troops concentration in Egypt kept the Ottomans from considering an offensive there. And so the question was, what next?
A general offensive into Ukraine was considered, as Russia appeared to be struggling under the weight of the war effort. But Russia was vast, and the Central Powers would have to march and fight for months before reaching anything of military importance in the region. Cemal Pasha, whom "was a quiet man, who kept to himself and could be counted on in a heated conversation to be emitting a general sense of ennui," by German observers, finally proposed an audacious endeavor. Half of Italy was occupied, including most of it's industry. The Italian people, many of whom were already wary of entering the war to begin with, were open about their desire for an end to the conflict in their country. Cemal ventured that a few more decisive defeats against the Italians, and they would leave the war, freeing up immense amounts of manpower for the Central Powers to focus anywhere. When the Hapsburg attaches pointed out that decisive victories in central Italy were a forgone conclusion, Cemal coolly replied that if the German High Seas fleet could find a way into the Mediterranean, that the Ottomans would be more than happy to deal the death blow to Italy...in Libya.
Cemal Pasha in Budapest, 1916.
Naturally, the other powers were skeptical. But the more they thought about it, the more it seemed their best bet to make something happen. Between the Ottoman Army and the Bulgarian Army, four corps were busy garrisoning the coast of the Levant in order to prevent an Entente attempt to cut off the Sinai via amphibious assault. With Entente naval power in the Atlantic nonexistent, the German High Seas fleet would be free to steam around Africa and enter the Mediterranean via the Suez canal. This would free up valuable Ottoman forces for a landing in Libya - which was held "by no more than a handful of useless militia," claimed Cemal - and also allow the Bulgarian army room to head to other theaters - it was rumored that Romania was considering entering the Entente. If the operation was a success, not only would Italy be kicked out of the war, but British Egypt would be untenable for the Entente.
And so it was agreed. In mid July, as the Battle of the Bulge ended, and two German transport flotillas were readied up, that the High Seas Fleet set off around Africa. The journey was long, but uneventful, and eventually, under the covering fire of the vast Ottoman artillery batteries hidden in the desert and the massive guns close to 20 dreadnoughts, the High Seas fleet steamed into the Mediterranean. Immediately, the Ottomans set about their preparations. The Bulgarian army started it's long route back to Europe, while the eager Ottoman Army amassed at ports along the coast. Even the small little Ottoman Navy sailed out from Istanbul to accompany the mighty German fleet.
The first action taken, on July 31, 1916, was the securing of Cyprus, long occupied by British authorities. A Turkish cavalry division stormed ashore, only to find the island unoccupied and thousands of jubilant Turkish villagers coming to greet them - though the Greek inhabitants were noticeably more lukewarm in their enthusiasm for "liberation." The bloodless reconquest was celebrated throughout the Empire. Even better was the sinking of two French submarine flotillas that attempted to scout out the operations.
The capture of Cyprus not only provided a major propaganda tool for the empire, but also secured the Levant coast.
Next up, two Ottoman divisions were picked up from Beirut. The German transports provided were not enough to carry more than two divisions at a time, and those divisions had to leave their artillery behind aside from the light regimental cannons . Nevertheless, the troops and officers were confident of victory. Officers that had fought in Libya in 1911 were specially chosen to lead the assault, and the Ottoman troops were encouraged with propaganda about reconquering rightfully Muslim land from the treacherous Italians. Under careful coordination with the HSF, the Ottoman landing force landed south of the eastern Libyan port of Bengasi, fought off a half hearted attack from the local Italian garrison, and chased them out of the city, much to the joy of the native population. A large stockpile of supplies was found in the port, saving the Ottomans the difficulty of running supply convoys through the submarine infested waters.
The Italian militia were no match for the Ottoman front line troops, who bloodily defeated an attempt by the Italians to crush them at the waterline, and then counterattacked and swiftly took the port city.
All seemed going well, in Italy, panic set in, and the Ottomans had more troops to spare. But alas, the fortunes of war are fickle. The Italians, swiftly disembarked a few frontline divisions of their own in Tripoli, and began a long march across the desert sands to the east. Back in Beirut, when one of the Ottoman frontline divisions was found unorganized enough to load onto the transports, impatient German naval officers demanded that the Ottomans simply use a poorly equipped cavalry division in their place. The Ottomans gave in, and only one frontline division was loaded onto the transports to take the fortress of Torbruk. This wouldn't have been a problem if not for the fact that after the Ottoman troops landed to the east of the city and the HSF sailed away, the German admiral Souchon in charge of the Ottoman Navy let an Italian transport fleet sail right past his ships and land a fully armed division in the city. Without another line division to add to their firepower, the Ottomans failed to take the port city before their supplies ran out, and an entire infantry division and a cavalry division were forced to surrender by the Italians while the transports were still rushing back to save them.
The German naval commander, Wilhelm Souchon, had taken command of the Ottoman navy upon his arrival on the Goeben. Since then, he lead the Ottoman navy to nothing but defeat, and had been responsible for letting a Russian transport fleet slip past him in the Black Sea a year earlier. Doing it again, against unprotected Italian transports, and costing two divisions their lives, proved the final straw. When he arrived back at Istanbul, Souchon was beaten, dragged from his cabin, and executed in an alleyway by the docks by Ottoman naval officers. So swift and sudden was the Ottomans justice, that the Germans were inclined to believe the made up reports that their admiral had meet his end at the hands of radical Armenians as the Sublime Porte reported.
Having failed to defeat the Italians at Torbruk, suddenly the entire Libyan scheme seemed doomed. Finding themselves outnumbered, the two divisions in Bengasi were quickly evacuated. The Ottoman public was stunned once news of the disaster got out. Victory had seemed assured. Indeed, instead of dealing the Italian public a final blow, the Ottomans had given the Italians their first victory in the war, as indeed it was a 100% Italian operation. Suddenly, the Italian rallied around their flag, even if for only a brief moment.
And as Cemal Pasha faced criticism on the floor of the Sublime Porte, news arrived from Europe. On August 21, 1916, Romania, Greece, and Sweden declared war on the Central Powers.
Panic broke out in the city. The Bulgarian army had yet to enter Europe, the Thracian garrison was not numerous enough to hold out against the combined armies of Greece AND Romania, and a million Russians were said to be pouring into northern Romania. Austria was already defeated it was said, all was lost. In reality, it was only half a million Russians, and the Hapsburgs were holding firm, but to the Sublime Porte, their darkest hour was suddenly and dramatically upon them when only moments ago, the light of victory had been shinning.
Editors Notes: Sorry for the lack of screens. The shit hitting the fan in the Balkans actually happened right after I won in Bengasi -though I shall save it for the introduction of next weeks chapter - and I suddenly found myself far to busy throwing men into positions to take screenshots. I will give you more this Saturday I swear!
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That was on the cards. To represent the fact that you didn't have to occupy a whole nation to kill them, nations lose National Unity per victory points. Italy was a little over 60% on NU. The loss of the Libyan VP's and Sicily would have pushed it into surrender. But alas, my German admiral royally fucked up...Also the Balkans had far more of an impact than anything, as I suddenly found myself needing everything I could get there yesterday lol.
Poor libyans, getting attacked, also were using a cloaking device on our transports, like that philadelphia experiment thing, i suggest you try it out too .
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Silence you Italian filth! . Well played ya bastard Bout time you Entente fought back.
. Well played ya bastard Bout time you Entente fought back.
...that's one heck of a reversal.
I love the timing on that. Not just Romania, but Greece and for some God-forsaken reason Sweden as well, just to underline how utterly "let's screw over the Central Powers" this episode was. Well, this certainly made things interesting again.
I love the timing on that. Not just Romania, but Greece and for some God-forsaken reason Sweden as well, just to underline how utterly "let's screw over the Central Powers" this episode was. Well, this certainly made things interesting again.
Damn Sweden man, those bastards and their meatballs! We're totally gonna let Finland annex them when this is over...