By magic do you mean Smithian Economics?PetitBourgeois said:Why?
Magic.And it should actually be 135%.
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Well the french are trying and the italians are hoarding all the money. Nothing new folks, move along
lol yeah,
We didn't play that long though, but we should have a war next session, unless something once again delays everything...
We didn't play that long though, but we should have a war next session, unless something once again delays everything...
common before you get to vicky and the last chase of war before HOI2 starts.
anyway what year is it?
anyway what year is it?
PetitBourgeois said:1721.
And I can't wait for Vicky.
Can't wait for Hearts of Iron !!
Well the game has died. Officially. But we will try this concept again and we will do our best to avoid making the same mistakes as before (like having no PvP wars at all lol)
Chow folks, new game/AAR should be up by early December
Chow folks, new game/AAR should be up by early December
Things don't just die. Are you all too ill to play? Too many player agreements? Has PB scared everyone away? Is Marty tired of trying to appease eveyone for the sake of continuing the game? The thought of fighting other players scare you all?
Wait what? You just say it's dead and have no reason for it? You can't do that! At the very least tell us why it's dead. And please say that this is a mean, cruel joke. Please.
I say in the next game you all should be a non-European countries. It's to easy to rule the world as a European country.
Basically, there was disagreement over a save edit that was made, and tempers raged out of control. It is sad to see it end, but a new, better game will come from the ashes...I kind of like the idea of no European nations...
But, I am wondering who I should be next (For, yes, my second ever MP game). I was thinking either Castille or Aragon to form Spain, but that might be a bit easy and I am not a huge fan of colonialzation because I like focusing on one area. (calling the AAR Sketches of Spain)
I don't want to be a Germanic nation since I just was one in the last game.
Perhaps Lithuania (even though they are in a PU to begin with)---they might be fun.
Any suggestions?
But, I am wondering who I should be next (For, yes, my second ever MP game). I was thinking either Castille or Aragon to form Spain, but that might be a bit easy and I am not a huge fan of colonialzation because I like focusing on one area. (calling the AAR Sketches of Spain)
I don't want to be a Germanic nation since I just was one in the last game.
Perhaps Lithuania (even though they are in a PU to begin with)---they might be fun.
Any suggestions?
i am trying to be as objective as i can here:
in pre-last session there were talks about releasing the USA from GB between PB, Griffin and Darkness. Apparantly this was further decided behind the scenes, half of the players not even knowing about it, not being able to voice their opinion nor vote about the matter. PB apparantly edited the save in such a way that all the colonial holdings in the new world of GB became USA, and gave cores everywhere except in south america(USA even got cores on colonies with 200 pop in the north).
now comes my subjective part:
As i was watching the income graphs, i saw USA hit income near to Walshy and my own Russia. Here I found the dilemma, whereas walshy for example has made a big struggle trough instability to get to such an income, raising it from the lowest to 3rd place. Apparantly it was someones idea to let siegemunde play USA, hence a disagreement because a few people felt that he should not get a pre made nation whereas others forged their ownes. The Gm forced USA player to release states but this never happined between the discussions. Elcyion also pointed out that USA could become even more richer by trade, whereas USA now owned the most cots. At some point i decided to take my own right and declare war on USA and invade california, an isolated piece of land on the eastern coast. I had already planned to seize the Gold mines from GB and was not planning on backing down just because a new player became that nation. At this point PB seemed to make a very big deal about it being traditional land from USA. here i said that California originally belonged to mexico thus found that arguement rather hollow. Since when does playing like reality make good games? it makes all games rather static in my opinion.
several times, the GM told USA to peace but this was unheard, leaving USA player to rack up my WE causing rebels everywhere, not to forget that i had the idea that italy was preparing to declare war on me. at this point i accused them both of being subjective for this i have these reasons:
-Siegemunde's first post was in our game.
-PB forwarded Siegmunde to us.
-In the session that Siegmunde played GB, he was solely allied to PB, I wanted to let Sweden have Canada, at least a place to colonise. Note that i wasnt allied to sweden anymore in that session. I havent been constantly allied to anyone longer then 2 sessions because it creates staticity in the game, very much like the 100 year lasting alliances PB had. that land in canada was owned by Griffin. I personally offered a massive amount of gold for it however for some reason PB made Griffin sell it to Siegemunde, making a total PB-Siegmunde hegemony over the new world being its only inhabitants except for the small dutch enclave in New Netrherlands.
-Siegemunde has not once taken onother view or opinion then PB, at all times they agreed on everything with each other even when everyone else disagreed in favor of common sense.
After this i wished them luck with AI Russia, leaving the game. not this was not on impuls, i already warned them several times that i would leave the game if the situation was left unchanged.
Siegemunde also wanted to displace Griffin to south america, he wanted the west coast for himself where as i felt that i was talking for Griffin as well since Griffin made a very big point in keeping and having those colonies over the years and i figured as much that he would not want to hand them over.
I personally had the idea that it was PB and Siegemunde arguing with the rest over the edit. it almost seemed to the point where PB seemed to have higher authority then the Gm as the GM was totally ignored and shoved away as being over hasty. In fact the Gm might have known about this, but he was just as amazed like me at the extend, he did not even know all of america was to become USA (i ask myself what is going on when the Gm doesnt even know which edits were made?).
several quotes:
Afterwards i had a discussion with Elcyion where he asked me why i hadnt rolled over Europe when i had the chance. Looking back on it, i should have done that to spare us alot of discussions and braincracking. At least it would have ended the game in a proper way.
I am looking forward to a new game but i fear that some peope will drag on past events to that game. I of myself know that i reset my experiences with players at each game(a few exceptions ofcourse, one can never be completely objective) i will have to see who does and who doesnt.
i will leave everyone else to awnser on this, if need be i will respond back on it but i only wish to represent how things were experienced by me in this game, not to open a discussion here. I will not awnser on senseless and hollow arguements, i will only respond to fundamented arguements.
EDIT: pardon me i switched west and east coast in this post but im too tired to correct it now,
in pre-last session there were talks about releasing the USA from GB between PB, Griffin and Darkness. Apparantly this was further decided behind the scenes, half of the players not even knowing about it, not being able to voice their opinion nor vote about the matter. PB apparantly edited the save in such a way that all the colonial holdings in the new world of GB became USA, and gave cores everywhere except in south america(USA even got cores on colonies with 200 pop in the north).
now comes my subjective part:
As i was watching the income graphs, i saw USA hit income near to Walshy and my own Russia. Here I found the dilemma, whereas walshy for example has made a big struggle trough instability to get to such an income, raising it from the lowest to 3rd place. Apparantly it was someones idea to let siegemunde play USA, hence a disagreement because a few people felt that he should not get a pre made nation whereas others forged their ownes. The Gm forced USA player to release states but this never happined between the discussions. Elcyion also pointed out that USA could become even more richer by trade, whereas USA now owned the most cots. At some point i decided to take my own right and declare war on USA and invade california, an isolated piece of land on the eastern coast. I had already planned to seize the Gold mines from GB and was not planning on backing down just because a new player became that nation. At this point PB seemed to make a very big deal about it being traditional land from USA. here i said that California originally belonged to mexico thus found that arguement rather hollow. Since when does playing like reality make good games? it makes all games rather static in my opinion.
several times, the GM told USA to peace but this was unheard, leaving USA player to rack up my WE causing rebels everywhere, not to forget that i had the idea that italy was preparing to declare war on me. at this point i accused them both of being subjective for this i have these reasons:
-Siegemunde's first post was in our game.
-PB forwarded Siegmunde to us.
-In the session that Siegmunde played GB, he was solely allied to PB, I wanted to let Sweden have Canada, at least a place to colonise. Note that i wasnt allied to sweden anymore in that session. I havent been constantly allied to anyone longer then 2 sessions because it creates staticity in the game, very much like the 100 year lasting alliances PB had. that land in canada was owned by Griffin. I personally offered a massive amount of gold for it however for some reason PB made Griffin sell it to Siegemunde, making a total PB-Siegmunde hegemony over the new world being its only inhabitants except for the small dutch enclave in New Netrherlands.
-Siegemunde has not once taken onother view or opinion then PB, at all times they agreed on everything with each other even when everyone else disagreed in favor of common sense.
After this i wished them luck with AI Russia, leaving the game. not this was not on impuls, i already warned them several times that i would leave the game if the situation was left unchanged.
Siegemunde also wanted to displace Griffin to south america, he wanted the west coast for himself where as i felt that i was talking for Griffin as well since Griffin made a very big point in keeping and having those colonies over the years and i figured as much that he would not want to hand them over.
I personally had the idea that it was PB and Siegemunde arguing with the rest over the edit. it almost seemed to the point where PB seemed to have higher authority then the Gm as the GM was totally ignored and shoved away as being over hasty. In fact the Gm might have known about this, but he was just as amazed like me at the extend, he did not even know all of america was to become USA (i ask myself what is going on when the Gm doesnt even know which edits were made?).
several quotes:
Code:
---------------------------------------------------------------
Darknesskilla(France): Ok Siegmunde can you release anyone
siegmunde(USA): I don't want to release anyone until I can talk to grif
---------------------------------------------------------------
PetitBourgeois(Italy): You're arguing over nothing; those cores in colonies don't mean terribly much
(im sorry but getting a core 50 years in advance is very usefull)
---------------------------------------------------------------
Darknesskilla(France): go so siegmund can release countries
Darknesskilla(France): 3 speed
siegmunde(USA): not until I talk to griffin
---------------------------------------------------------------
Darknesskilla(France): Fuck that man it's you release now or I'm kicking you from the game
PetitBourgeois(Italy): Why?
PetitBourgeois(Italy): Darkness, you're being way too hasty
Darknesskilla(France): No
Darknesskilla(France): USA is too powerful
PetitBourgeois(Italy): lol that is a terrible lie
Darknesskilla(France): I'd trade my France for that behemoth any day
PetitBourgeois(Italy): as powerful as you is not too powerful ; )
---------------------------------------------------------------
siegmunde(USA): I want griffin out of NA
siegmunde(USA): to SA
---------------------------------------------------------------
MonMarty(Russia): oh guess who suddwenly got the same income as byzants
Elcyion(Germany): Mon
Elcyion(Germany): u need to wait for his trade income
MasterOfPuppets(Scandinavia): Hahahaha
---------------------------------------------------------------
9 February, 1722 We declared war upon USA.
PetitBourgeois(Italy): So you dowed the US?
MonMarty(Russia): im taking what i wantred from GB just leave me be and you have peace soon
Elcyion(Germany): means u know the bonus
siegmunde(USA): ask me
MonMarty(Russia): i had a warplan to get the western board and im taking it
PetitBourgeois(Italy): God, marty, think before you dow
siegmunde(USA): and I'll probably give it to you
---------------------------------------------------------------
Darknesskilla(France): No I support Marty
---------------------------------------------------------------
PetitBourgeois(Italy): Alright, so I totally agree with the US keeping it's normal boundaries
siegmunde(USA): what I want is America's Traditional borders
(first he says hell likely give it to me and now he says he wants to keep it???)
---------------------------------------------------------------
Darknesskilla(France): Let Marty weaken the thing
MonMarty(Russia): because it cant release shit for another 30 years
PetitBourgeois(Italy): Weaken what thing?
siegmunde(USA): I am not strong
Elcyion(Germany): Mon wait for his 400 trade income from only himself trading in his cots :P
---------------------------------------------------------------
PetitBourgeois(Italy): I want the war to end
(yes but only in your own way, not like everyone else says.)
PetitBourgeois(Italy): Russia should not have california
---------------------------------------------------------------
PetitBourgeois(Italy): Because the US's traditional borders are what he should have
MonMarty(Russia): well maybe you hsould get out of africa and sa then
MonMarty(Russia): those arent traditional borders
MonMarty(Russia): and
MonMarty(Russia): california was mexican
MonMarty(Russia): not american
PetitBourgeois(Italy): That is illogical and makes no sense
siegmunde(USA): maybe you should get out of china
siegmunde(USA): your double standards are ridiculous
MonMarty(Russia): im just pointing out that you are saying nonsense
PetitBourgeois(Italy): That's not nonsense, that's my position
MonMarty(Russia): it isnt even tradition because it was mexican
PetitBourgeois(Italy): lol please, marty, that's ridiculous
---------------------------------------------------------------
MonMarty(Russia): and also taking point for griffin here
MonMarty(Russia): sigemunde said he wanted him out of NA
MonMarty(Russia): which griffin will never allow
MonMarty(Russia): thats not the point
MonMarty(Russia): griffin never goes for riches
MonMarty(Russia): he took that piece on purpose
PetitBourgeois(Italy): Look marty, don't talk for griffin when he isn't here
MonMarty(Russia): i heard griffin make the pleas he made for new netherlnads
MonMarty(Russia): he also expressed great value to them not for the riches but otherwise
---------------------------------------------------------------
MonMarty(Russia): can you read my pm's?
PetitBourgeois(Italy): How could you have if you didn't know about the US?
(well sorry but there is no such message in my inbox, bor puppets nor walshy to my knowing.)
---------------------------------------------------------------
MonMarty(Russia): why wont you peace?
siegmunde(USA): why did you declare war?
MonMarty(Russia): i wanted that land
MonMarty(Russia): since 2 sessions ago
siegmunde(USA): so did I
MonMarty(Russia): you have no right
MonMarty(Russia): you have only been playing 1 session
PetitBourgeois(Italy): Marty, that is the worst reasoning I've ever heard
Darknesskilla(France): Siegmund stand down or I will kick you
siegmunde(USA): does that give you the right to be a bully?
---------------------------------------------------------------
Darknesskilla(France): I'm the GM and I say that you can't have everything on session 1
(again all GM issues were ignored by PB and siegemude)
---------------------------------------------------------------
MonMarty(Russia): ok im done im off
MonMarty(Russia): have fun with AI russia
PetitBourgeois(Italy): It's your own fault that you have such high WE
MonMarty(Russia): this is rediculous and im not going to suffer this farce any longer
siegmunde(USA): you helped make it worse
Darknesskilla(France): I say Marty is right
Darknesskilla(France): Us is too big
siegmunde(USA): yeah
Darknesskilla(France): and it is rediculous
PetitBourgeois(Italy): Omg, darkness
MonMarty(Russia): if peace solution isnt brought now im off
PetitBourgeois(Italy): siegmunde totally agrees
siegmunde(USA): have you not heard me this entire time!
siegmunde(USA): you guys aren't listening
Elcyion(Germany): Wouldent the best idea
Elcyion(Germany): be to let Siegmunde play GB
Elcyion(Germany): instead?
(Elcy was also ignored here)
---------------------------------------------------------------
MonMarty(Russia): this is stupid no matter how much the gm and the other players say PB and siegmunde will never gove up
MonMarty(Russia): and im off
---------------------------------------------------------------
here i resigned.
---------------------------------------------------------------Afterwards i had a discussion with Elcyion where he asked me why i hadnt rolled over Europe when i had the chance. Looking back on it, i should have done that to spare us alot of discussions and braincracking. At least it would have ended the game in a proper way.
I am looking forward to a new game but i fear that some peope will drag on past events to that game. I of myself know that i reset my experiences with players at each game(a few exceptions ofcourse, one can never be completely objective) i will have to see who does and who doesnt.
i will leave everyone else to awnser on this, if need be i will respond back on it but i only wish to represent how things were experienced by me in this game, not to open a discussion here. I will not awnser on senseless and hollow arguements, i will only respond to fundamented arguements.
EDIT: pardon me i switched west and east coast in this post but im too tired to correct it now,
Last edited:
a suggestion to GNL:
Portugal might be a nice alternative for you, provided there is a castille that wont eat you. Portugal has a low census which doesnt allow overextensive colonising. it forces you to focus on one area but you can raise Portugal to be a trading monster like i did in BWC. if you want more info i can divulge you some if you require it to make your choise.
Portugal might be a nice alternative for you, provided there is a castille that wont eat you. Portugal has a low census which doesnt allow overextensive colonising. it forces you to focus on one area but you can raise Portugal to be a trading monster like i did in BWC. if you want more info i can divulge you some if you require it to make your choise.
I find it sad this amazing AAR is over.
But modding in the USA in the game!
That is in my opinion the stupid desision.
Hope another great aar rears it head.
But modding in the USA in the game!
That is in my opinion the stupid desision.
Hope another great aar rears it head.
why didn't he just play as GB? and the talk about US traditional borders... well my opinion means squat but my support is with Marty.